[globaloutlookDH-l] When citing emails, do people silently correct typos?

Ernesto Priego efpriego at gmail.com
Mon Feb 3 13:30:36 MST 2014


Dear all,

A final comment from me on this. I promise.

I'd say that "public" and "private" are not clear-cut categories. There's
room for complexity and exceptions. I understand that's a can of worms that
might go beyond the scope of this (now clearly fully-citeable) discussion.

As Isabel says a (sic) would be offensive.

If something I quickly typed on the train (like this message right now)
were to be cited in an academic paper about writing in English (a paper
authored by a native English speaker addressing a majority of native
English-speaking colleagues) I would be most-distressed to be exhibited
making mistakes of any type. I'd much rather be asked directly so I can
explain explain myself better.

Then again that's just me.

Best regards,

Sent from my mobile
On Feb 3, 2014 7:26 PM, "igalina" <igalina at unam.mx> wrote:

>  Dear Dan,
> You have posed a most interesting question. Although I agree that writing
> to the person informing them that you want to quote them would be polite I
> must say that I too assume that when I write on a discussion list, it is
> public (unless specifically closed). Especially if you are going to be
> citing lots of different people writing to each person and obtaining their
> permission is equivalent I think of life before Creative Commons when the
> solution was to write to the copyright owner for permission to use the
> material. It gets very complicated very quickly.
> As for the typos and mistakes in the emails,  I don't think that using
> [sic] is the solution. I don't know if it is just me but it seems
> offensive, especially given the context we are writing in. I like this idea
> of a footnote.
> Best,
> Isabel
>
>
>  ----------
> Dra. Isabel Galina Russell
> Instituto de Investigaciones Bibliográficas,
> Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México (UNAM)
> igalina at unam.mx
> @igalina
>
>
>  ------------------------------
> *De:* globaloutlookdh-l <globaloutlookdh-l-bounces at uleth.ca> en nombre de
> Bordalejo, Barbara <bab995 at mail.usask.ca>
> *Enviado:* lunes, 03 de febrero de 2014 11:02 a.m.
> *Para:* A list for participants in the ADHO DH Global Outlook Community
> *Asunto:* Re: [globaloutlookDH-l] When citing emails, do people silently
> correct typos?
>
>  Dear Ernesto,
>
>  Although I agree with you on the fundamental point that one should ask
> before quoting a listserve post or an e-mail, I am not sure that I agree
> with your reasons for that.
>
>  We are all aware (or we should be aware) that everything we post,
> anywhere on the internet, at any point, could be retrieved by others. I
> have suffered the consequences of using irony in a reply to Humanist, which
> was then quoted (by a senior scholar) as if I actually had meant my words
> literally. Lesson 1: if you are going to use irony make sure that others
> are aware of it but don't be surprised if someone ends up misinterpreting
> you.
>
>  In the past, irritated by a rude message, I hit reply and send a very
> angry answer to a colleague which ended up distributed to a whole list.
> Lesson 2: Do not answer professional messages when angry. If the anger is
> consuming you, at least, check who the recipient is before sending.
>
>  Many years ago, when I started my MA, the university's guidelines
> suggested not to create an account with a name like "partyanimal" or
> "sexything." I followed the instructions, it was easy as I was neither of
> those. However, they forgot to mention that if I ever signed an online
> petition to get a desk for Dana Scully, eight years later my students would
> still find the long lost site. Lesson 3: make sure that you are not ashamed
> of your TV taste or that you don't leave a trail of evidence about it.
>
>  The fact that Snowden only generated mild discomfort rather than anger
> and mass protests, shows that many people consider online information to be
> public. I wouldn't go as far. Not everything should be public, but in
> practice many things are.
>
>  When I want to make reference to an e-mail, post or even a blog entry, I
> contact the author. I don't do this because I think that the person should
> know, I do it because it is good manners and because I am aware of the
> composition process of these types of texts and want to make sure that the
> person meant what I think he or she meant.
>
>  So we agree, but we have different reasons to think as we do.
>
>  BB
>
>
>  On 3 Feb 2014, at 10:40, Ernesto Priego <efpriego at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>   Hey Dan,
>
>  I did not mean to say to that "the default for contributions to public
> scholarly listservs should be considered private", but that the way one
> writes in an email is not the way one would write on a public blog post, or
> a journal article.
>
>  Not all listservs are alike, and some offer public access to the archive,
> and others don't (the latter require a membership).
>
>  So I see my replies (that are conversational) between members in a given
> email lsit as precisely in a grey area, where I am not necessarily writing
> with the awareness that I will be cited publicly by others. If this happens
> on places like Twitter, where people often get surprised to discover the
> reach of their postings (because they more or less assume, with different
> degrees of self-conciousness, that their postings are public), it seems
> reasonable to me that when one feels one is chatting amongst friends then
> discovering one has been cited publicly (making typos for example) could be
> a reason to be surprised.
>
>  If one wants to be really strict about it yes, I believe that a listserv
> that will be completely public should contain a terms and conditions
> document stating that members are OK with their postings a) being
> completely public and b) being subject to citation, reuse, etc. without
> previous consent. I am a CC and OA advocate so I would be more than happy
> to subscribe to that; I am saying this because I am aware that perhaps this
> is something that not everyone is conscious of (otherwise there wouldn't be
> such panic sometimes when some people discover Facebook's or Tumblr's Terms
> and Conditions for example). Maybe this sounds boring and paranoid, but if
> email is going to be a form of publishing we need to start thinking about
> the ways users are expecting to license their postings.
>
>  When I write these words, for example, I am replying to you, Dan,
> knowing that everyone else in the list will be reading, and that the list
> is the ADHO DH Global Outlook Community. My words are addressed to you and
> the list, and even if in some region of my mind I am at the same time aware
> these words might be read by others outside this list, I am always writing
> for this list. Otherwise I would just post it elsewhere; my blog for
> example.
>
>  If email listserv postings are going to be subject to research by
> third-parties, then all members need to be aware of that their right to
> confidentiality is being waived. In the majority of research surveys,
> respondents should be fully informed about the aims of the survey, and the
> respondent's consent to participate in the survey must be obtained and
> recorded.
>
>  I am also saying this because not all people are equally safe when being
> cited. This means that some scholars can be very critical publicly and face
> little risk, whilst other scholars in other settings might be more
> vulnerable. Often email listservs offer a level of confidentiality (even if
> it is just perceived as such) that the open web does not offer (one can
> feel one is chatting in cofindence, amongst friends, even if this is not
> the case and one is going on the record at all times).
>
>  So I'd say that when it comes to citing what someone said in an email
> (to a listserv or not) it's always better to be safe and ask if it's OK to
> share/cite than sorry... but that's just my personal opinion.
>
>  Best,
>
>
>
>
>
> * Dr Ernesto Priego *Lecturer in Library Science
> Acting Course Director, MSc/MA Electronic Publishing, City University
> London
>
> City University London offers a wide range of postgraduate courses
> delivered by world-leading academics. Register for our Open Evening<http://www.city.ac.uk/events/2014/feb/postgraduate-open-evening>on Wednesday 19
> th February to find out more.
>
> MediaCommons' THE NEW EVERYDAY is happy to announce the publication of a
> cluster on
> THE MULTIMODALITY OF COMICS IN EVERYDAY LIFE,
> curated by Ernesto Priego of City University London and David N. Wright of
> Douglas College.
>
> http://mediacommons.futureofthebook.org/tne/cluster/multimodality-comics-everyday-life
>
> http://epriego.wordpress.com/  @ernestopriego<https://twitter.com/ernestopriego>
>  Editor-in-Chief, *The Comics Grid: Journal of Comics Scholarship *
> http://www.comicsgrid.com/
>  Subscribe to the Comics Grid Newsletter: http://eepurl.com/iOYAj
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 3, 2014 at 4:18 PM, Daniel O'Donnell <daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca
> > wrote:
>
>> Hi Ernesto,
>>
>> I'm really not sure about your privacy paragraph. It seems to me
>> difficult to believe that anybody posting to a publicly archived list with
>> an open membership could understand what they are saying as anything but
>> meant for public consumption. Does that mean, for example, that Humanist is
>> not a public record since it doesn't explicitly say it is? That seems hard
>> to believe, since a lot of important things happen there. I'd have thought
>> the same of this list.
>>
>> Moreover, it isn't a question of the "list owner" having special
>> privileges. Since the records are publicly available to anybody on the web,
>> and were distributed to all members of the list, anybody in the world can
>> cite anything sent to a public email list. There's no additional level of
>> access that the owner has on a public list.
>>
>> I can see a couple of places where there might be an expectation of
>> privacy or where good manner might cede privacy to a public posting.
>>
>> Listservs with a closed archive, for example, might be considered prima
>> facie private, especially if the membership is restricted and known. It is
>> dangerous for a writer to assume that something posted to such a list will
>> remain private. But I can certainly see how one might be ethically obliged
>> to confirm with the poster before citation. Even there, however, the lists
>> I'm on that are really *meant* to be private indicate it: our department
>> list, for example, has a header on every message that says the contents of
>> the list are to be considered confidential and not to be redistributed
>> without prior permission.
>>
>> Even on an open list, it seems to me to be good manners not to cite
>> clearly accidental postings--e.g. the kind of private messages that people
>> sometimes send to a list in error. I don't think the sender can have any
>> expectation that a publicly archived message-sent-in-error like that will
>> not be cited by anybody; but it seems to me that the citer has a duty in
>> that case to check.
>>
>> But for most things on a public list, it seems to me that the whole point
>> of the list is to build a kind of gray scholarly literature: a lot of our
>> discussions on this list, for example, contain discussions that are clearly
>> meant to be generalisable and influence debate (like this conversation
>> here, for example); others, like announcements, cfps, job ads, etc., are
>> clearly meant to be redistributed.
>>
>> Because it exists in a border area between the formal and the informal
>> (it is like formal publication in that it is available to the
>> community--and probably more widely read--but unlike it in that there is no
>> editorial process), I think we owe a duty of respect to the people we cite,
>> meaning not to be too critical of word choice or minor inconsistencies. But
>> I know I've never thought my participation on any public scholarly email
>> list (e.g. tei-l, humanist, dm-l, digitalclassicist, globaloutlookdh-l) was
>> private.
>>
>> Do others feel that the default for contributions to public scholarly
>> listservs is that they should be considered private? I confess that had
>> never occurred to me before.
>>
>> -dan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 14-02-03 07:14 AM, Ernesto Priego wrote:
>>
>>    It is an interesting question. I suppose some minor typos resulting
>> form typing too fast could be correced "silently". I do these typing
>> mistakes all the time; especially when replying form a mobile phone.
>>
>>  As for citing emails I would think a related question is equally
>> important, that of privacy. Even for listservs, I assume we are saying some
>> things "in confidence", i.e. we write and send certain things because we
>> are writing them for and sending them to a particuar list which means
>> particular receivers, even when we sometimes don't know who are all the
>> members. It's not the same as when posting openly on Twitter for example,
>> when one assumes it's all public and anyone can read and therefore cite.
>>
>>  So before citing anything anyone said via email I would check with the
>> sender if it's OK to cite them, unless there are some terms and conditions
>> somewhere that say the owner of the list is entitled to cite any messages
>> sent to the list.
>>
>>  Best,
>>
>> e
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> * Dr Ernesto Priego *Lecturer in Library Science
>> Acting Course Director, MSc/MA Electronic Publishing, City University
>> London
>>
>> City University London offers a wide range of postgraduate courses
>> delivered by world-leading academics. Register for our Open Evening<http://www.city.ac.uk/events/2014/feb/postgraduate-open-evening>on Wednesday 19
>> th February to find out more.
>>
>> MediaCommons' THE NEW EVERYDAY is happy to announce the publication of a
>> cluster on
>> THE MULTIMODALITY OF COMICS IN EVERYDAY LIFE,
>> curated by Ernesto Priego of City University London and David N. Wright
>> of Douglas College.
>>
>> http://mediacommons.futureofthebook.org/tne/cluster/multimodality-comics-everyday-life
>>
>> http://epriego.wordpress.com/  @ernestopriego<https://twitter.com/ernestopriego>
>>  Editor-in-Chief, *The Comics Grid: Journal of Comics Scholarship *
>> http://www.comicsgrid.com/
>>  Subscribe to the Comics Grid Newsletter: http://eepurl.com/iOYAj
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 10:20 PM, Daniel O'Donnell <
>> daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> It really is pretty cool, eh?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 14-02-01 02:43 PM, Yasmín S. Portales Machado wrote:
>>>
>>> ¡Me encanta esta lista!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yasmín S. Portales Machado
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Marxista, Feminista y Bloguera
>>>
>>>
>>> Twitter: @nimlothdecuba
>>>
>>> Facebook http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=663817529
>>>
>>> Mi blog: http://yasminsilvia.blogspot.com/
>>>
>>>
>>> Parte de Proyecto Arcoiris
>>>
>>> Colectivo LGBT, anticapitalista e independiente, de Cuba
>>>
>>> http://proyectoarcoiris.cubava.cu/
>>>
>>>
>>> Parte de Observatorio Crítico de Cuba
>>>
>>> ¡A la izquierda, pero por la izquierda!
>>>
>>> http://observatoriocriticodesdecuba.wordpress.com/
>>>
>>>
>>> "El feminismo ha puesto en evidencia, mejor que ninguna otra corriente
>>> de pensamiento, tanto la arbitrariedad del psicoanálisis como la
>>> insuficiencia del marxismo, es decir, ha cuestionado los dos grandes
>>> modelos totalizadores del siglo XX."
>>>
>>> Carlo Frabetti
>>>
>>>
>>> *De:* globaloutlookdh-l [mailto:globaloutlookdh-l-bounces at uleth.ca<globaloutlookdh-l-bounces at uleth.ca>]
>>> *En nombre de *Daniel O'Donnell
>>> *Enviado el:* Saturday, February 1, 2014 1:47 PM
>>> *Para:* globaloutlookdh-l at uleth.ca
>>> *Asunto:* Re: [globaloutlookDH-l] When citing emails, do people
>>> silently correct typos?
>>>
>>>
>>> I like that idea for 3), though I think I'll leave the explanation in
>>> now, because it needs to go through a press and editors. I confess, I don't
>>> even like the idea of correcting them: that is what email is.
>>>
>>>  On 14-02-01 11:34 AM, Nishant Shah wrote:
>>>
>>>  Hey Dan,
>>> This is a great question, and one that a lot of us working with online
>>> transcripts and with non-standard Englishes constantly face.
>>> With a collection I was editing, working with writers from Asia, Africa
>>> and Latin America, where the writers were not native speakers and also not
>>> professionally used to writing, we faced a similar dilemma which
>>> eventually, we resolved in the following ways:
>>> 1. Except for when the syntax was so irregular that the citation was
>>> unintelligible, we contacted the sources and checked if they want to
>>> re-write it, or if our corrections were still representing what they meant.
>>> 2. Like in oral ethnography projects, we retained the irregularities of
>>> 'written speech', and we used that as a precedence for retaining these
>>> 'errors'.
>>> 3. With different registers in the language, we retained them without
>>> even high-lighting or italicising or pointing out those irregularities,
>>> because that is a judgment call we did not want to make, and we also
>>> thought that the onus of bias was on the reader.
>>> Hope this helps resolve some of your queries,
>>> Warm regards
>>> Nishant
>>> On 01-02-2014 19:21, Daniel O'Donnell wrote:
>>>
>>> I have a question for advice from this group that might have political
>>> implications.
>>>
>>> In an article I'm about to submit, I cite a number of discussions on
>>> this list and humanist about the use of language, especially English. The
>>> authors are both native English speakers and non-native speakers and, as is
>>> typical in emails, there are a number of small typos. solecisms, and the
>>> like.
>>>
>>> Currently, I have a note at the first citation indicating that "as is
>>> normal in as conversational a medium as email correspondence, the quoted
>>> passages have small typographical errors and other solecisms. These have
>>> not been corrected or otherwise noted." My reason for this is that I don't
>>> want to put in a lot of sic or corrections in square brackets. Although I'm
>>> a terrible typo offender myself, the case can be more politicised it seems
>>> to me when dealing with non-native speakers. I'm uncomfortable acting
>>> either as judge or, worse, in my case, calling attention to
>>> "errors"--especially since I think they are really more issues of register
>>> than actual errors.
>>>
>>> I could silently correct them, of course, as well, but I don't like that
>>> either, in case what I think is an obvious correction turns out to
>>> misrepresent something.
>>>
>>> What do other people think? I've seen *sic* used before as a form of ad
>>> hominem attack and so I generally really hate using it if I can avoid it.
>>> But since it also seems nuts to pepper the correspondence with square
>>> brackets (and since that could have the same effect as a lot of sics), I
>>> don't want to do that either.
>>>
>>> Is there a better solution than simply flagging the register difference,
>>> as I currently do?
>>>
>>>  --
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>> Daniel Paul O'Donnell
>>>
>>> Professor of English
>>>
>>> University of Lethbridge
>>>
>>> Lethbridge AB T1K 3M4
>>>
>>> Canada
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> +1 403 393-2539
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>
>>> globaloutlookdh-l mailing list
>>>
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>>>
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>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> *Dr. Nishant Shah *(Ph.D. Cultural Studies)
>>> *International Tandem Partner *, Centre for Digital Cultures
>>> <http://www.leuphana.de/en/zentren/cdc.html>Lüneburg, Germany
>>> *Director Research *, The Centre for Internet & Society, Bangalore
>>> <http://cis-india.org/>
>>> *Phone*: India: +91-974-007-4884; Germany: +49-176-841-660-87
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>
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>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  --
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>> Daniel Paul O'Donnell
>>>
>>> Professor of English
>>>
>>> University of Lethbridge
>>>
>>> Lethbridge AB T1K 3M4
>>>
>>> Canada
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> +1 403 393-2539
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ---
>>> Daniel Paul O'Donnell
>>> Professor of English
>>> University of Lethbridge
>>> Lethbridge AB T1K 3M4
>>> Canada
>>> +1 403 393-2539
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> globaloutlookdh-l mailing list
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>>>
>>
>> --
>> ---
>> Daniel Paul O'Donnell
>> Professor of English
>> University of Lethbridge
>> Lethbridge AB T1K 3M4
>> Canada
>> +1 403 393-2539
>>
>>
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