[globaloutlookDH-l] When citing emails, do people silently correct typos?

Suzana Sukovic suzana.sukovic at gmail.com
Mon Feb 3 16:46:00 MST 2014


Dear all,
An interesting discussion from the perspective of research ethics and
cultural sensitivity. I am not sure if I missed an explanation of the topic
of Daniel's article. That may help in answering some of the questions.

Daniel, it seems that your research has elements of ethnography so it'd be
worth looking at how social sciences, particularly ethnographic Internet
research, deal with some of these problems. The issue is an approach to
"unaware participants" in your study. The choice of corrections will come
out of decisions about approach.

Generally, it's worth saying something about ethical considerations and
reasons for making certain choices in the paper. I would say something
about the nature of quotations in the section about methodology rather than
in a note.

Nishant Shah has given some useful options.

And, yes, I am also super aware how I am writing now (insert smiley).
Cheers,
Suzana

Dr Suzana Sukovic


Head of Learning Resource Centre
St Vincent's College
Locked Bag 2700, Potts Point, NSW, 1335

Australia

Tel: 61 2 9368 1611 ext 215
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On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 7:49 AM, Bordalejo, Barbara <bab995 at mail.usask.ca>wrote:

>  Here you raise an important issue about language, specifically about
> communicating in a non-native language. Yes, [sic] is offensive and it is
> often used as a weapon: an author who corrects the scholar he or she is
> quoting, might think this to be proof of superiority.
>
>  It is true that I would be mortified if any of the quirks that can be
> found in my written English were to be exposed as proof of my general
> incompetence. As I write this, I wonder if my prepositions are right, but
> also if my tone is adequate and whether this message contributes to the
> discussion. However, I suspect that I would be equally distressed (or
> perhaps more distressed) if anyone found mistakes in my Spanish.
>
>  Part of the goal of GO::DH, at least in my mind, should be to fight
> against the prejudices exhibited by native speakers of all languages
> against those who are less proficient. After all, those making non-native
> mistakes in English can, at least, speak one other language. But we also
> should keep in mind that consideration for others, which includes the
> opportunity to correct themselves, is one of the most important qualities
> in a human being and proof of ethical soundness in a researcher.
>
>
>  BB
>
>  On 3 Feb 2014, at 14:30, Ernesto Priego <efpriego at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  Dear all,
>
> A final comment from me on this. I promise.
>
> I'd say that "public" and "private" are not clear-cut categories. There's
> room for complexity and exceptions. I understand that's a can of worms that
> might go beyond the scope of this (now clearly fully-citeable) discussion.
>
> As Isabel says a (sic) would be offensive.
>
> If something I quickly typed on the train (like this message right now)
> were to be cited in an academic paper about writing in English (a paper
> authored by a native English speaker addressing a majority of native
> English-speaking colleagues) I would be most-distressed to be exhibited
> making mistakes of any type. I'd much rather be asked directly so I can
> explain explain myself better.
>
> Then again that's just me.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Sent from my mobile
> On Feb 3, 2014 7:26 PM, "igalina" <igalina at unam.mx> wrote:
>
>>  Dear Dan,
>> You have posed a most interesting question. Although I agree that writing
>> to the person informing them that you want to quote them would be polite I
>> must say that I too assume that when I write on a discussion list, it is
>> public (unless specifically closed). Especially if you are going to be
>> citing lots of different people writing to each person and obtaining their
>> permission is equivalent I think of life before Creative Commons when the
>> solution was to write to the copyright owner for permission to use the
>> material. It gets very complicated very quickly.
>> As for the typos and mistakes in the emails,  I don't think that using
>> [sic] is the solution. I don't know if it is just me but it seems
>> offensive, especially given the context we are writing in. I like this idea
>> of a footnote.
>> Best,
>> Isabel
>>
>>
>>  ----------
>> Dra. Isabel Galina Russell
>> Instituto de Investigaciones Bibliográficas,
>> Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México (UNAM)
>> igalina at unam.mx
>> @igalina
>>
>>
>>  ------------------------------
>> *De:* globaloutlookdh-l <globaloutlookdh-l-bounces at uleth.ca> en nombre
>> de Bordalejo, Barbara <bab995 at mail.usask.ca>
>> *Enviado:* lunes, 03 de febrero de 2014 11:02 a.m.
>> *Para:* A list for participants in the ADHO DH Global Outlook Community
>> *Asunto:* Re: [globaloutlookDH-l] When citing emails, do people silently
>> correct typos?
>>
>>  Dear Ernesto,
>>
>>  Although I agree with you on the fundamental point that one should ask
>> before quoting a listserve post or an e-mail, I am not sure that I agree
>> with your reasons for that.
>>
>>  We are all aware (or we should be aware) that everything we post,
>> anywhere on the internet, at any point, could be retrieved by others. I
>> have suffered the consequences of using irony in a reply to Humanist, which
>> was then quoted (by a senior scholar) as if I actually had meant my words
>> literally. Lesson 1: if you are going to use irony make sure that others
>> are aware of it but don't be surprised if someone ends up misinterpreting
>> you.
>>
>>  In the past, irritated by a rude message, I hit reply and send a very
>> angry answer to a colleague which ended up distributed to a whole list.
>> Lesson 2: Do not answer professional messages when angry. If the anger is
>> consuming you, at least, check who the recipient is before sending.
>>
>>  Many years ago, when I started my MA, the university's guidelines
>> suggested not to create an account with a name like "partyanimal" or
>> "sexything." I followed the instructions, it was easy as I was neither of
>> those. However, they forgot to mention that if I ever signed an online
>> petition to get a desk for Dana Scully, eight years later my students would
>> still find the long lost site. Lesson 3: make sure that you are not ashamed
>> of your TV taste or that you don't leave a trail of evidence about it.
>>
>>  The fact that Snowden only generated mild discomfort rather than anger
>> and mass protests, shows that many people consider online information to be
>> public. I wouldn't go as far. Not everything should be public, but in
>> practice many things are.
>>
>>  When I want to make reference to an e-mail, post or even a blog entry,
>> I contact the author. I don't do this because I think that the person
>> should know, I do it because it is good manners and because I am aware of
>> the composition process of these types of texts and want to make sure that
>> the person meant what I think he or she meant.
>>
>>  So we agree, but we have different reasons to think as we do.
>>
>>  BB
>>
>>
>>  On 3 Feb 2014, at 10:40, Ernesto Priego <efpriego at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>   Hey Dan,
>>
>>  I did not mean to say to that "the default for contributions to public
>> scholarly listservs should be considered private", but that the way one
>> writes in an email is not the way one would write on a public blog post, or
>> a journal article.
>>
>>  Not all listservs are alike, and some offer public access to the
>> archive, and others don't (the latter require a membership).
>>
>>  So I see my replies (that are conversational) between members in a
>> given email lsit as precisely in a grey area, where I am not necessarily
>> writing with the awareness that I will be cited publicly by others. If this
>> happens on places like Twitter, where people often get surprised to
>> discover the reach of their postings (because they more or less assume,
>> with different degrees of self-conciousness, that their postings are
>> public), it seems reasonable to me that when one feels one is chatting
>> amongst friends then discovering one has been cited publicly (making typos
>> for example) could be a reason to be surprised.
>>
>>  If one wants to be really strict about it yes, I believe that a
>> listserv that will be completely public should contain a terms and
>> conditions document stating that members are OK with their postings a)
>> being completely public and b) being subject to citation, reuse, etc.
>> without previous consent. I am a CC and OA advocate so I would be more than
>> happy to subscribe to that; I am saying this because I am aware that
>> perhaps this is something that not everyone is conscious of (otherwise
>> there wouldn't be such panic sometimes when some people discover Facebook's
>> or Tumblr's Terms and Conditions for example). Maybe this sounds boring and
>> paranoid, but if email is going to be a form of publishing we need to start
>> thinking about the ways users are expecting to license their postings.
>>
>>  When I write these words, for example, I am replying to you, Dan,
>> knowing that everyone else in the list will be reading, and that the list
>> is the ADHO DH Global Outlook Community. My words are addressed to you and
>> the list, and even if in some region of my mind I am at the same time aware
>> these words might be read by others outside this list, I am always writing
>> for this list. Otherwise I would just post it elsewhere; my blog for
>> example.
>>
>>  If email listserv postings are going to be subject to research by
>> third-parties, then all members need to be aware of that their right to
>> confidentiality is being waived. In the majority of research surveys,
>> respondents should be fully informed about the aims of the survey, and the
>> respondent's consent to participate in the survey must be obtained and
>> recorded.
>>
>>  I am also saying this because not all people are equally safe when
>> being cited. This means that some scholars can be very critical publicly
>> and face little risk, whilst other scholars in other settings might be more
>> vulnerable. Often email listservs offer a level of confidentiality (even if
>> it is just perceived as such) that the open web does not offer (one can
>> feel one is chatting in cofindence, amongst friends, even if this is not
>> the case and one is going on the record at all times).
>>
>>  So I'd say that when it comes to citing what someone said in an email
>> (to a listserv or not) it's always better to be safe and ask if it's OK to
>> share/cite than sorry... but that's just my personal opinion.
>>
>>  Best,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> * Dr Ernesto Priego *Lecturer in Library Science
>> Acting Course Director, MSc/MA Electronic Publishing, City University
>> London
>>
>> City University London offers a wide range of postgraduate courses
>> delivered by world-leading academics. Register for our Open Evening<http://www.city.ac.uk/events/2014/feb/postgraduate-open-evening>on Wednesday 19
>> th February to find out more.
>>
>> MediaCommons' THE NEW EVERYDAY is happy to announce the publication of a
>> cluster on
>> THE MULTIMODALITY OF COMICS IN EVERYDAY LIFE,
>> curated by Ernesto Priego of City University London and David N. Wright
>> of Douglas College.
>>
>> http://mediacommons.futureofthebook.org/tne/cluster/multimodality-comics-everyday-life
>>
>> http://epriego.wordpress.com/  @ernestopriego<https://twitter.com/ernestopriego>
>>  Editor-in-Chief, *The Comics Grid: Journal of Comics Scholarship *
>> http://www.comicsgrid.com/
>>  Subscribe to the Comics Grid Newsletter: http://eepurl.com/iOYAj
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 3, 2014 at 4:18 PM, Daniel O'Donnell <
>> daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Ernesto,
>>>
>>> I'm really not sure about your privacy paragraph. It seems to me
>>> difficult to believe that anybody posting to a publicly archived list with
>>> an open membership could understand what they are saying as anything but
>>> meant for public consumption. Does that mean, for example, that Humanist is
>>> not a public record since it doesn't explicitly say it is? That seems hard
>>> to believe, since a lot of important things happen there. I'd have thought
>>> the same of this list.
>>>
>>> Moreover, it isn't a question of the "list owner" having special
>>> privileges. Since the records are publicly available to anybody on the web,
>>> and were distributed to all members of the list, anybody in the world can
>>> cite anything sent to a public email list. There's no additional level of
>>> access that the owner has on a public list.
>>>
>>> I can see a couple of places where there might be an expectation of
>>> privacy or where good manner might cede privacy to a public posting.
>>>
>>> Listservs with a closed archive, for example, might be considered prima
>>> facie private, especially if the membership is restricted and known. It is
>>> dangerous for a writer to assume that something posted to such a list will
>>> remain private. But I can certainly see how one might be ethically obliged
>>> to confirm with the poster before citation. Even there, however, the lists
>>> I'm on that are really *meant* to be private indicate it: our
>>> department list, for example, has a header on every message that says the
>>> contents of the list are to be considered confidential and not to be
>>> redistributed without prior permission.
>>>
>>> Even on an open list, it seems to me to be good manners not to cite
>>> clearly accidental postings--e.g. the kind of private messages that people
>>> sometimes send to a list in error. I don't think the sender can have any
>>> expectation that a publicly archived message-sent-in-error like that will
>>> not be cited by anybody; but it seems to me that the citer has a duty in
>>> that case to check.
>>>
>>> But for most things on a public list, it seems to me that the whole
>>> point of the list is to build a kind of gray scholarly literature: a lot of
>>> our discussions on this list, for example, contain discussions that are
>>> clearly meant to be generalisable and influence debate (like this
>>> conversation here, for example); others, like announcements, cfps, job ads,
>>> etc., are clearly meant to be redistributed.
>>>
>>> Because it exists in a border area between the formal and the informal
>>> (it is like formal publication in that it is available to the
>>> community--and probably more widely read--but unlike it in that there is no
>>> editorial process), I think we owe a duty of respect to the people we cite,
>>> meaning not to be too critical of word choice or minor inconsistencies. But
>>> I know I've never thought my participation on any public scholarly email
>>> list (e.g. tei-l, humanist, dm-l, digitalclassicist, globaloutlookdh-l) was
>>> private.
>>>
>>> Do others feel that the default for contributions to public scholarly
>>> listservs is that they should be considered private? I confess that had
>>> never occurred to me before.
>>>
>>> -dan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 14-02-03 07:14 AM, Ernesto Priego wrote:
>>>
>>>    It is an interesting question. I suppose some minor typos resulting
>>> form typing too fast could be correced "silently". I do these typing
>>> mistakes all the time; especially when replying form a mobile phone.
>>>
>>>  As for citing emails I would think a related question is equally
>>> important, that of privacy. Even for listservs, I assume we are saying some
>>> things "in confidence", i.e. we write and send certain things because we
>>> are writing them for and sending them to a particuar list which means
>>> particular receivers, even when we sometimes don't know who are all the
>>> members. It's not the same as when posting openly on Twitter for example,
>>> when one assumes it's all public and anyone can read and therefore cite.
>>>
>>>  So before citing anything anyone said via email I would check with the
>>> sender if it's OK to cite them, unless there are some terms and conditions
>>> somewhere that say the owner of the list is entitled to cite any messages
>>> sent to the list.
>>>
>>>  Best,
>>>
>>> e
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> * Dr Ernesto Priego *Lecturer in Library Science
>>> Acting Course Director, MSc/MA Electronic Publishing, City University
>>> London
>>>
>>> City University London offers a wide range of postgraduate courses
>>> delivered by world-leading academics. Register for our Open Evening<http://www.city.ac.uk/events/2014/feb/postgraduate-open-evening>on Wednesday 19
>>> th February to find out more.
>>>
>>> MediaCommons' THE NEW EVERYDAY is happy to announce the publication of a
>>> cluster on
>>> THE MULTIMODALITY OF COMICS IN EVERYDAY LIFE,
>>> curated by Ernesto Priego of City University London and David N. Wright
>>> of Douglas College.
>>>
>>> http://mediacommons.futureofthebook.org/tne/cluster/multimodality-comics-everyday-life
>>>
>>> http://epriego.wordpress.com/  @ernestopriego<https://twitter.com/ernestopriego>
>>>  Editor-in-Chief, *The Comics Grid: Journal of Comics Scholarship *
>>> http://www.comicsgrid.com/
>>>  Subscribe to the Comics Grid Newsletter: http://eepurl.com/iOYAj
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 10:20 PM, Daniel O'Donnell <
>>> daniel.odonnell at uleth.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> It really is pretty cool, eh?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 14-02-01 02:43 PM, Yasmín S. Portales Machado wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ¡Me encanta esta lista!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yasmín S. Portales Machado
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Marxista, Feminista y Bloguera
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Twitter: @nimlothdecuba
>>>>
>>>> Facebook http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=663817529
>>>>
>>>> Mi blog: http://yasminsilvia.blogspot.com/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Parte de Proyecto Arcoiris
>>>>
>>>> Colectivo LGBT, anticapitalista e independiente, de Cuba
>>>>
>>>> http://proyectoarcoiris.cubava.cu/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Parte de Observatorio Crítico de Cuba
>>>>
>>>> ¡A la izquierda, pero por la izquierda!
>>>>
>>>> http://observatoriocriticodesdecuba.wordpress.com/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "El feminismo ha puesto en evidencia, mejor que ninguna otra corriente
>>>> de pensamiento, tanto la arbitrariedad del psicoanálisis como la
>>>> insuficiencia del marxismo, es decir, ha cuestionado los dos grandes
>>>> modelos totalizadores del siglo XX."
>>>>
>>>> Carlo Frabetti
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *De:* globaloutlookdh-l [mailto:globaloutlookdh-l-bounces at uleth.ca<globaloutlookdh-l-bounces at uleth.ca>]
>>>> *En nombre de *Daniel O'Donnell
>>>> *Enviado el:* Saturday, February 1, 2014 1:47 PM
>>>> *Para:* globaloutlookdh-l at uleth.ca
>>>> *Asunto:* Re: [globaloutlookDH-l] When citing emails, do people
>>>> silently correct typos?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I like that idea for 3), though I think I'll leave the explanation in
>>>> now, because it needs to go through a press and editors. I confess, I don't
>>>> even like the idea of correcting them: that is what email is.
>>>>
>>>>  On 14-02-01 11:34 AM, Nishant Shah wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  Hey Dan,
>>>> This is a great question, and one that a lot of us working with online
>>>> transcripts and with non-standard Englishes constantly face.
>>>> With a collection I was editing, working with writers from Asia, Africa
>>>> and Latin America, where the writers were not native speakers and also not
>>>> professionally used to writing, we faced a similar dilemma which
>>>> eventually, we resolved in the following ways:
>>>> 1. Except for when the syntax was so irregular that the citation was
>>>> unintelligible, we contacted the sources and checked if they want to
>>>> re-write it, or if our corrections were still representing what they meant.
>>>> 2. Like in oral ethnography projects, we retained the irregularities of
>>>> 'written speech', and we used that as a precedence for retaining these
>>>> 'errors'.
>>>> 3. With different registers in the language, we retained them without
>>>> even high-lighting or italicising or pointing out those irregularities,
>>>> because that is a judgment call we did not want to make, and we also
>>>> thought that the onus of bias was on the reader.
>>>> Hope this helps resolve some of your queries,
>>>> Warm regards
>>>> Nishant
>>>> On 01-02-2014 19:21, Daniel O'Donnell wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I have a question for advice from this group that might have political
>>>> implications.
>>>>
>>>> In an article I'm about to submit, I cite a number of discussions on
>>>> this list and humanist about the use of language, especially English. The
>>>> authors are both native English speakers and non-native speakers and, as is
>>>> typical in emails, there are a number of small typos. solecisms, and the
>>>> like.
>>>>
>>>> Currently, I have a note at the first citation indicating that "as is
>>>> normal in as conversational a medium as email correspondence, the quoted
>>>> passages have small typographical errors and other solecisms. These have
>>>> not been corrected or otherwise noted." My reason for this is that I don't
>>>> want to put in a lot of sic or corrections in square brackets. Although I'm
>>>> a terrible typo offender myself, the case can be more politicised it seems
>>>> to me when dealing with non-native speakers. I'm uncomfortable acting
>>>> either as judge or, worse, in my case, calling attention to
>>>> "errors"--especially since I think they are really more issues of register
>>>> than actual errors.
>>>>
>>>> I could silently correct them, of course, as well, but I don't like
>>>> that either, in case what I think is an obvious correction turns out to
>>>> misrepresent something.
>>>>
>>>> What do other people think? I've seen *sic* used before as a form of
>>>> ad hominem attack and so I generally really hate using it if I can avoid
>>>> it. But since it also seems nuts to pepper the correspondence with square
>>>> brackets (and since that could have the same effect as a lot of sics), I
>>>> don't want to do that either.
>>>>
>>>> Is there a better solution than simply flagging the register
>>>> difference, as I currently do?
>>>>
>>>>  --
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>>
>>>> Daniel Paul O'Donnell
>>>>
>>>> Professor of English
>>>>
>>>> University of Lethbridge
>>>>
>>>> Lethbridge AB T1K 3M4
>>>>
>>>> Canada
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> +1 403 393-2539
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> globaloutlookdh-l mailing list
>>>>
>>>> globaloutlookdh-l at uleth.ca
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> *Dr. Nishant Shah *(Ph.D. Cultural Studies)
>>>> *International Tandem Partner *, Centre for Digital Cultures
>>>> <http://www.leuphana.de/en/zentren/cdc.html>Lüneburg, Germany
>>>> *Director Research *, The Centre for Internet & Society, Bangalore
>>>> <http://cis-india.org/>
>>>> *Phone*: India: +91-974-007-4884; Germany: +49-176-841-660-87
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  --
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>>
>>>> Daniel Paul O'Donnell
>>>>
>>>> Professor of English
>>>>
>>>> University of Lethbridge
>>>>
>>>> Lethbridge AB T1K 3M4
>>>>
>>>> Canada
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> +1 403 393-2539
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> ---
>>>> Daniel Paul O'Donnell
>>>> Professor of English
>>>> University of Lethbridge
>>>> Lethbridge AB T1K 3M4
>>>> Canada
>>>> +1 403 393-2539
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> globaloutlookdh-l mailing list
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>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ---
>>> Daniel Paul O'Donnell
>>> Professor of English
>>> University of Lethbridge
>>> Lethbridge AB T1K 3M4
>>> Canada
>>> +1 403 393-2539
>>>
>>>
>>  _______________________________________________
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