From the point of view of a librarian, CDs are the worst way to distribute
this kind of project. We've got lots of CDs purchased in the '90s on our shelves, that are now unusable due to deterioration of the media or obsoleteness of the platform. Anything that depends on current browsers will suffer the same fate before many more of us have tenure. An online source, with institutional backing that ensures it will stay online and be maintained as technology changes, is much to be prefered. I'd be willing to sacrifice a lot of functionality for the sake of permanence, since the functionality will evaporate anyway with the next generation of browsers. The ongoing institutional support has to be sufficient to re-engineer the project from time to time to keep it working with new browsers and other tools as yet unimagined, which is no small commitment. It makes sense therefore to avoid doing one-off development and instead develop standard tools and protocols for presenting these projects.
Peter Binkley Digital Initiatives Technology Librarian Information Technology Services 4-30 Cameron Library University of Alberta Libraries Edmonton, Alberta Canada T6G 2J8 Phone: (780) 492-3743 Fax: (780) 492-9243 e-mail: peter.binkley@ualberta.ca
-----Original Message----- From: Peter Baker [mailto:psb6m@virginia.edu] Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 06:36 AM To: elizabeth.solopova@bodley.ox.ac.uk; Digital Medievalist Community mailing list Subject: Re: [dm-l] Re: Exeter Book CD: for free?
Digital Medievalist Journal (Inaugural Issue Fall 2004). Call for papers: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/cfp.htm
Thanks for this clarification, Elizabeth. I was very excited to find the Bod's images site just as I was preparing to teach Exodus to my grad. seminar last spring. What the Bod is doing here seems a good solution: the images are available for free; you can get an accurate text of the Junius poems free too. But the CD adds value for those willing and able to pony up the (perfectly reasonable) £50.
Well, it adds value for most. Not for me, since I run Linux. Not for the large numbers of medievalists who run Mac OS X. I think it a really dreadful mistake to use MS's extensions to JavaScript, forcing people to use The Worst Browser Now Available. On the other hand, the Dictionary of Old English made the same mistake, so at least you're in good company.
Peter
Elizabeth Solopova wrote:
Digital Medievalist Journal (Inaugural Issue Fall 2004). Call for papers: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/cfp.htm
Dear All,
The Junius 11 CD-ROM (Bodleian Digital Texts 1) was published by the Bodleian rather than OUP. The Bodleian supported the project financially (the development of software), provided the images and contributed to the development of the interface. All the
technical and
academic work was done by Burnard Muir and his team. The
images published
on the CD were already available when the work on the
project started six
years ago: they are still available free of charge for
personal use by
researchers via Early Manuscripts at Oxford University (http://image.ox.ac.uk/). The next project in the series
will be MS. Auct.
F. 2.13 (Terence's Comedies). The images are also available
via the Early
Manuscripts at Oxford University site. The CD-ROM works only
with Internet
Explorer because Microsoft's implementation of JavaScript
was used (you may
have noticed the use of JavaScript in the extract posted by
Martin). As far
as I know Burnard Muir's team will try to overcome this
limitation in the
next CD-ROM.
Elizabeth
Dr. Elizabeth Solopova Department of Special Collections and Western Manuscripts Bodleian Library Broad Street Oxford OX1 3BG Tel.: +44 (0)1865-277073 E-mail: es@bodley.ox.ac.uk Internet: http://www.bodley.ox.ac.uk/ http://www.bodley.ox.ac.uk/dept/scwmss/
Project web site: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/ dm-l mailing list dm-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l
Project web site: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/ dm-l mailing list dm-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l
I agree completely about CDs; I got this same earful from the people at the Electronic Text Center here when I asked. My complete rant on the subject will be up on the Digital Medievalist website in the fall. But not everything aimed at "current browsers" need decay: the standards organizations tend to keep backwards compatibility in mind as their recommendations develop. Browsers will not stop recognizing XHTML 1.0 transitional just because 2.0, 3.0, or indeed 15.0 have been released. Same with JavaScript: stick with the ECMA recommendation and steer clear of all extensions, whether Microsoft's or Mozilla's, and your site should still be working when you all have tenure (and I am retired).
Peter
Binkley, Peter wrote:
Digital Medievalist Journal (Inaugural Issue Fall 2004). Call for papers: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/cfp.htm
From the point of view of a librarian, CDs are the worst way to distribute
this kind of project. We've got lots of CDs purchased in the '90s on our shelves, that are now unusable due to deterioration of the media or obsoleteness of the platform. Anything that depends on current browsers will suffer the same fate before many more of us have tenure. An online source, with institutional backing that ensures it will stay online and be maintained as technology changes, is much to be prefered. I'd be willing to sacrifice a lot of functionality for the sake of permanence, since the functionality will evaporate anyway with the next generation of browsers. The ongoing institutional support has to be sufficient to re-engineer the project from time to time to keep it working with new browsers and other tools as yet unimagined, which is no small commitment. It makes sense therefore to avoid doing one-off development and instead develop standard tools and protocols for presenting these projects.
Peter Binkley Digital Initiatives Technology Librarian Information Technology Services 4-30 Cameron Library University of Alberta Libraries Edmonton, Alberta Canada T6G 2J8 Phone: (780) 492-3743 Fax: (780) 492-9243 e-mail: peter.binkley@ualberta.ca
-----Original Message----- From: Peter Baker [mailto:psb6m@virginia.edu] Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 06:36 AM To: elizabeth.solopova@bodley.ox.ac.uk; Digital Medievalist Community mailing list Subject: Re: [dm-l] Re: Exeter Book CD: for free?
Digital Medievalist Journal (Inaugural Issue Fall 2004). Call for papers: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/cfp.htm
Thanks for this clarification, Elizabeth. I was very excited to find the Bod's images site just as I was preparing to teach Exodus to my grad. seminar last spring. What the Bod is doing here seems a good solution: the images are available for free; you can get an accurate text of the Junius poems free too. But the CD adds value for those willing and able to pony up the (perfectly reasonable) £50.
Well, it adds value for most. Not for me, since I run Linux. Not for the large numbers of medievalists who run Mac OS X. I think it a really dreadful mistake to use MS's extensions to JavaScript, forcing people to use The Worst Browser Now Available. On the other hand, the Dictionary of Old English made the same mistake, so at least you're in good company.
Peter
Elizabeth Solopova wrote:
Digital Medievalist Journal (Inaugural Issue Fall 2004). Call for papers: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/cfp.htm
Dear All,
The Junius 11 CD-ROM (Bodleian Digital Texts 1) was published by the Bodleian rather than OUP. The Bodleian supported the project financially (the development of software), provided the images and contributed to the development of the interface. All the
technical and
academic work was done by Burnard Muir and his team. The
images published
on the CD were already available when the work on the
project started six
years ago: they are still available free of charge for
personal use by
researchers via Early Manuscripts at Oxford University (http://image.ox.ac.uk/). The next project in the series
will be MS. Auct.
F. 2.13 (Terence's Comedies). The images are also available
via the Early
Manuscripts at Oxford University site. The CD-ROM works only
with Internet
Explorer because Microsoft's implementation of JavaScript
was used (you may
have noticed the use of JavaScript in the extract posted by
Martin). As far
as I know Burnard Muir's team will try to overcome this
limitation in the
next CD-ROM.
Elizabeth
Dr. Elizabeth Solopova Department of Special Collections and Western Manuscripts Bodleian Library Broad Street Oxford OX1 3BG Tel.: +44 (0)1865-277073 E-mail: es@bodley.ox.ac.uk Internet: http://www.bodley.ox.ac.uk/ http://www.bodley.ox.ac.uk/dept/scwmss/
Project web site: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/ dm-l mailing list dm-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l
Project web site: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/ dm-l mailing list dm-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l
Project web site: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/ dm-l mailing list dm-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l
Sure, sure. But can't you archive most of the CDs, and even run them in network environments, once you have purchased them?
~ Martin Foys
On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 10:14:30 -0600 "Binkley, Peter" Peter.Binkley@ualberta.ca wrote:
Digital Medievalist Journal (Inaugural Issue Fall 2004). Call for papers: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/cfp.htm
From the point of view of a librarian, CDs are the worst way to distribute
this kind of project. We've got lots of CDs purchased in the '90s on our shelves, that are now unusable due to deterioration of the media or obsoleteness of the platform. Anything that depends on current browsers will suffer the same fate before many more of us have tenure. An online source, with institutional backing that ensures it will stay online and be maintained as technology changes, is much to be prefered. I'd be willing to sacrifice a lot of functionality for the sake of permanence, since the functionality will evaporate anyway with the next generation of browsers. The ongoing institutional support has to be sufficient to re-engineer the project from time to time to keep it working with new browsers and other tools as yet unimagined, which is no small commitment. It makes sense therefore to avoid doing one-off development and instead develop standard tools and protocols for presenting these projects.
Peter Binkley Digital Initiatives Technology Librarian Information Technology Services 4-30 Cameron Library University of Alberta Libraries Edmonton, Alberta Canada T6G 2J8 Phone: (780) 492-3743 Fax: (780) 492-9243 e-mail: peter.binkley@ualberta.ca
-----Original Message----- From: Peter Baker [mailto:psb6m@virginia.edu] Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 06:36 AM To: elizabeth.solopova@bodley.ox.ac.uk; Digital Medievalist Community mailing list Subject: Re: [dm-l] Re: Exeter Book CD: for free?
Digital Medievalist Journal (Inaugural Issue Fall 2004). Call for papers: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/cfp.htm
Thanks for this clarification, Elizabeth. I was very excited to find the Bod's images site just as I was preparing to teach Exodus to my grad. seminar last spring. What the Bod is doing here seems a good solution: the images are available for free; you can get an accurate text of the Junius poems free too. But the CD adds value for those willing and able to pony up the (perfectly reasonable) £50.
Well, it adds value for most. Not for me, since I run Linux. Not for the large numbers of medievalists who run Mac OS X. I think it a really dreadful mistake to use MS's extensions to JavaScript, forcing people to use The Worst Browser Now Available. On the other hand, the Dictionary of Old English made the same mistake, so at least you're in good company.
Peter
Elizabeth Solopova wrote:
Digital Medievalist Journal (Inaugural Issue Fall 2004). Call for papers: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/cfp.htm
Dear All,
The Junius 11 CD-ROM (Bodleian Digital Texts 1) was published by the Bodleian rather than OUP. The Bodleian supported the project financially (the development of software), provided the images and contributed to the development of the interface. All the
technical and
academic work was done by Burnard Muir and his team. The
images published
on the CD were already available when the work on the
project started six
years ago: they are still available free of charge for
personal use by
researchers via Early Manuscripts at Oxford University (http://image.ox.ac.uk/). The next project in the series
will be MS. Auct.
F. 2.13 (Terence's Comedies). The images are also available
via the Early
Manuscripts at Oxford University site. The CD-ROM works only
with Internet
Explorer because Microsoft's implementation of JavaScript
was used (you may
have noticed the use of JavaScript in the extract posted by
Martin). As far
as I know Burnard Muir's team will try to overcome this
limitation in the
next CD-ROM.
Elizabeth
Dr. Elizabeth Solopova Department of Special Collections and Western Manuscripts Bodleian Library Broad Street Oxford OX1 3BG Tel.: +44 (0)1865-277073 E-mail: es@bodley.ox.ac.uk Internet: http://www.bodley.ox.ac.uk/ http://www.bodley.ox.ac.uk/dept/scwmss/
Project web site: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/ dm-l mailing list dm-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l
Project web site: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/ dm-l mailing list dm-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l
Project web site: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/ dm-l mailing list dm-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Martin K. Foys Assistant Professor Department of English Hood College Frederick, MD 21701
vox: 301~696~3740 fax: 301~696~3586 ether: foys@hood.edu
Bayeux Tapestry Digital Edition, Choice 2004 Outstanding Academic Title: http://www.boydell.co.uk/choice.htm
That's what UVA's Electronic Text Center does when it can. But it can't always get permission to do so. CETEDOC, to take an example well known to this mob, must be used in situ on CD only. Back when Patrologia Latina was on CD, they gave permission to network it as long as access could be restricted to UVA users. Guess which I was most likely to use?
Peter
Martin K. Foys wrote:
Digital Medievalist Journal (Inaugural Issue Fall 2004). Call for papers: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/cfp.htm
Sure, sure. But can't you archive most of the CDs, and even run them in network environments, once you have purchased them?
~ Martin Foys
On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 10:14:30 -0600 "Binkley, Peter" Peter.Binkley@ualberta.ca wrote:
Digital Medievalist Journal (Inaugural Issue Fall 2004). Call for papers: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/cfp.htm
From the point of view of a librarian, CDs are the worst way to distribute
this kind of project. We've got lots of CDs purchased in the '90s on our shelves, that are now unusable due to deterioration of the media or obsoleteness of the platform. Anything that depends on current browsers will suffer the same fate before many more of us have tenure. An online source, with institutional backing that ensures it will stay online and be maintained as technology changes, is much to be prefered. I'd be willing to sacrifice a lot of functionality for the sake of permanence, since the functionality will evaporate anyway with the next generation of browsers. The ongoing institutional support has to be sufficient to re-engineer the project from time to time to keep it working with new browsers and other tools as yet unimagined, which is no small commitment. It makes sense therefore to avoid doing one-off development and instead develop standard tools and protocols for presenting these projects. Peter Binkley Digital Initiatives Technology Librarian Information Technology Services 4-30 Cameron Library University of Alberta Libraries Edmonton, Alberta Canada T6G 2J8 Phone: (780) 492-3743 Fax: (780) 492-9243 e-mail: peter.binkley@ualberta.ca
-----Original Message----- From: Peter Baker [mailto:psb6m@virginia.edu] > Sent: Tuesday, July
20, 2004 06:36 AM
To: elizabeth.solopova@bodley.ox.ac.uk; Digital Medievalist >
Community mailing list
Subject: Re: [dm-l] Re: Exeter Book CD: for free?
Digital Medievalist Journal (Inaugural Issue Fall 2004). Call >
for papers: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/cfp.htm
Thanks for this clarification, Elizabeth. I was very excited > to
find the > Bod's images site just as I was preparing to teach Exodus to my >grad. > seminar last spring. What the Bod is doing here seems a good > solution: > the images are available for free; you can get an accurate > text of the > Junius poems free too. But the CD adds value for those > willing and able > to pony up the (perfectly reasonable) £50.
Well, it adds value for most. Not for me, since I run Linux. >
Not for the > large numbers of medievalists who run Mac OS X. I think it a really > dreadful mistake to use MS's extensions to JavaScript,
forcing people to > use The Worst Browser Now Available. On the
other hand, the > Dictionary > of Old English made the same mistake, so at least you're in > good company.
Peter Elizabeth Solopova wrote:
Digital Medievalist Journal (Inaugural Issue Fall 2004). Call
for > >papers: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/cfp.htm
Dear All,
The Junius 11 CD-ROM (Bodleian Digital Texts 1) was published by the Bodleian rather than OUP. The Bodleian supported the project >
financially (the development of software), provided the images and > contributed to the development of the interface. All the > technical
and > >academic work was done by Burnard Muir and his team. The > images published > >on the CD were already available when the work on the > project started six > >years ago: they are still available free of charge for > personal use by > >researchers via Early Manuscripts at Oxford University > >(http://image.ox.ac.uk/). The next project in the series > will be MS. Auct. > >F. 2.13 (Terence's Comedies). The images are also available > via the Early > >Manuscripts at Oxford University site. The CD-ROM works only > with Internet > >Explorer because Microsoft's implementation of JavaScript > was used (you may
have noticed the use of JavaScript in the extract posted by >
Martin). As far > >as I know Burnard Muir's team will try to overcome this > limitation in the > >next CD-ROM.
Elizabeth
Dr. Elizabeth Solopova Department of Special Collections and Western Manuscripts Bodleian Library Broad Street Oxford OX1 3BG Tel.: +44 (0)1865-277073 E-mail: es@bodley.ox.ac.uk Internet: > >http://www.bodley.ox.ac.uk/ http://www.bodley.ox.ac.uk/dept/scwmss/
Project web site: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/ dm-l mailing list dm-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l
Project web site: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/ dm-l mailing list dm-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l
Project web site: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/ dm-l mailing list dm-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l
Martin K. Foys Assistant Professor Department of English Hood College Frederick, MD 21701 vox: 301~696~3740 fax: 301~696~3586 ether: foys@hood.edu Bayeux Tapestry Digital Edition, Choice 2004 Outstanding Academic Title: http://www.boydell.co.uk/choice.htm _______________________________________________ Project web site: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/ dm-l mailing list dm-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l
Hi all,
I have something coming out very soon (it may already be up, though there was a delay) in Heroic Age #7 (Winter 2003) about the question of making work last until retirement. It looks at the increasingly famous case of the BBC's digital Domesday book as an example of what not to do (though their mistakes were the result of historical infelicity). I'll pass on the URL as soon as I'm home next week or I know it is up (which ever is first). -dan
Digital Medievalist Journal (Inaugural Issue Fall 2004). Call for papers: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/cfp.htm
That's what UVA's Electronic Text Center does when it can. But it can't always get permission to do so. CETEDOC, to take an example well known to this mob, must be used in situ on CD only. Back when Patrologia Latina was on CD, they gave permission to network it as long as access could be restricted to UVA users. Guess which I was most likely to use?
Peter
Martin K. Foys wrote:
Digital Medievalist Journal (Inaugural Issue Fall 2004). Call for papers: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/cfp.htm
Sure, sure. But can't you archive most of the CDs, and even run them in network environments, once you have purchased them?
~ Martin Foys
On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 10:14:30 -0600 "Binkley, Peter" Peter.Binkley@ualberta.ca wrote:
Digital Medievalist Journal (Inaugural Issue Fall 2004). Call for papers: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/cfp.htm
From the point of view of a librarian, CDs are the worst way to distribute
this kind of project. We've got lots of CDs purchased in the '90s on our shelves, that are now unusable due to deterioration of the media or obsoleteness of the platform. Anything that depends on current browsers will suffer the same fate before many more of us have tenure. An online source, with institutional backing that ensures it will stay online and be maintained as technology changes, is much to be prefered. I'd be willing to sacrifice a lot of functionality for the sake of permanence, since the functionality will evaporate anyway with the next generation of browsers. The ongoing institutional support has to be sufficient to re-engineer the project from time to time to keep it working with new browsers and other tools as yet unimagined, which is no small commitment. It makes sense therefore to avoid doing one-off development and instead develop standard tools and protocols for presenting these projects. Peter Binkley Digital Initiatives Technology Librarian Information Technology Services 4-30 Cameron Library University of Alberta Libraries Edmonton, Alberta Canada T6G 2J8 Phone: (780) 492-3743 Fax: (780) 492-9243 e-mail: peter.binkley@ualberta.ca
-----Original Message----- From: Peter Baker [mailto:psb6m@virginia.edu] > Sent: Tuesday, July
20, 2004 06:36 AM
To: elizabeth.solopova@bodley.ox.ac.uk; Digital Medievalist >
Community mailing list
Subject: Re: [dm-l] Re: Exeter Book CD: for free?
Digital Medievalist Journal (Inaugural Issue Fall 2004). Call >
for papers: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/cfp.htm
Thanks for this clarification, Elizabeth. I was very excited > to
find the > Bod's images site just as I was preparing to teach Exodus to my >grad. > seminar last spring. What the Bod is doing here seems a good > solution: > the images are available for free; you can get an accurate > text of the > Junius poems free too. But the CD adds value for those > willing and able > to pony up the (perfectly reasonable) £50.
Well, it adds value for most. Not for me, since I run Linux. >
Not for the > large numbers of medievalists who run Mac OS X. I think it a really > dreadful mistake to use MS's extensions to JavaScript,
forcing people to > use The Worst Browser Now Available. On the
other hand, the > Dictionary > of Old English made the same mistake, so at least you're in > good company.
Peter Elizabeth Solopova wrote:
Digital Medievalist Journal (Inaugural Issue Fall 2004). Call
for > >papers: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/cfp.htm
Dear All,
The Junius 11 CD-ROM (Bodleian Digital Texts 1) was published by the Bodleian rather than OUP. The Bodleian supported the project >
financially (the development of software), provided the images and > contributed to the development of the interface. All the > technical
and > >academic work was done by Burnard Muir and his team. The > images published > >on the CD were already available when the work on the > project started six > >years ago: they are still available free of charge for > personal use by > >researchers via Early Manuscripts at Oxford University > >(http://image.ox.ac.uk/). The next project in the series > will be MS. Auct. > >F. 2.13 (Terence's Comedies). The images are also available > via the Early > >Manuscripts at Oxford University site. The CD-ROM works only > with Internet > >Explorer because Microsoft's implementation of JavaScript > was used (you may
have noticed the use of JavaScript in the extract posted by >
Martin). As far > >as I know Burnard Muir's team will try to overcome this > limitation in the > >next CD-ROM.
Elizabeth
Dr. Elizabeth Solopova Department of Special Collections and Western Manuscripts Bodleian Library Broad Street Oxford OX1 3BG Tel.: +44 (0)1865-277073 E-mail: es@bodley.ox.ac.uk Internet: > >http://www.bodley.ox.ac.uk/ http://www.bodley.ox.ac.uk/dept/scwmss/
>
Project web site: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/ dm-l mailing list dm-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l
> _______________________________________________
Project web site: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/ dm-l mailing list dm-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l
Project web site: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/ dm-l mailing list dm-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l
Martin K. Foys Assistant Professor Department of English Hood College Frederick, MD 21701 vox: 301~696~3740 fax: 301~696~3586 ether: foys@hood.edu Bayeux Tapestry Digital Edition, Choice 2004 Outstanding Academic Title: http://www.boydell.co.uk/choice.htm _______________________________________________ Project web site: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/ dm-l mailing list dm-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l
Project web site: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/ dm-l mailing list dm-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l
James will know better than I, but I believe the OTA Corpus is the 1993 TEI P1 text. The one for sale by the DOE has been through a couple of iterations and has a user friendly search function. It is also, given its complexity and the amount of scholarship, time, and need for funding involved (the DOE is not finished and lives fairly hand-to-mouth), relatively cheap for employed scholars to purchase even as individuals. (This is against my personal philosophy, not yet lived up to in my professional life, that scholarly work produced on public funds should at worst be published on a cost recovery basis, and at best for free on the web; but the DOE is an ongoing charity and gave me my first academic job, so I have a soft spot for them).
If anybody gets a licenced version of the P1 text (assuming I'm correct) and needs info on P4-ing it, or converting it to HTML, I can help. I don't have an XSL sheet that does either task though.
Does anybody have an XSLT solution to transforming the P1 SGML to P4 XML and via XSL to xhtml? That might be an inneresting test of the durability of encoding standards and the true portability of structural markup and XSL.
-dan
Digital Medievalist Journal (Inaugural Issue Fall 2004). Call for papers: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/cfp.htm
That's what UVA's Electronic Text Center does when it can. But it can't always get permission to do so. CETEDOC, to take an example well known to this mob, must be used in situ on CD only. Back when Patrologia Latina was on CD, they gave permission to network it as long as access could be restricted to UVA users. Guess which I was most likely to use?
Peter
Martin K. Foys wrote:
Digital Medievalist Journal (Inaugural Issue Fall 2004). Call for papers: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/cfp.htm
Sure, sure. But can't you archive most of the CDs, and even run them in network environments, once you have purchased them?
~ Martin Foys
On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 10:14:30 -0600 "Binkley, Peter" Peter.Binkley@ualberta.ca wrote:
Digital Medievalist Journal (Inaugural Issue Fall 2004). Call for papers: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/cfp.htm
From the point of view of a librarian, CDs are the worst way to distribute
this kind of project. We've got lots of CDs purchased in the '90s on our shelves, that are now unusable due to deterioration of the media or obsoleteness of the platform. Anything that depends on current browsers will suffer the same fate before many more of us have tenure. An online source, with institutional backing that ensures it will stay online and be maintained as technology changes, is much to be prefered. I'd be willing to sacrifice a lot of functionality for the sake of permanence, since the functionality will evaporate anyway with the next generation of browsers. The ongoing institutional support has to be sufficient to re-engineer the project from time to time to keep it working with new browsers and other tools as yet unimagined, which is no small commitment. It makes sense therefore to avoid doing one-off development and instead develop standard tools and protocols for presenting these projects. Peter Binkley Digital Initiatives Technology Librarian Information Technology Services 4-30 Cameron Library University of Alberta Libraries Edmonton, Alberta Canada T6G 2J8 Phone: (780) 492-3743 Fax: (780) 492-9243 e-mail: peter.binkley@ualberta.ca
-----Original Message----- From: Peter Baker [mailto:psb6m@virginia.edu] > Sent: Tuesday, July
20, 2004 06:36 AM
To: elizabeth.solopova@bodley.ox.ac.uk; Digital Medievalist >
Community mailing list
Subject: Re: [dm-l] Re: Exeter Book CD: for free?
Digital Medievalist Journal (Inaugural Issue Fall 2004). Call >
for papers: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/cfp.htm
Thanks for this clarification, Elizabeth. I was very excited > to
find the > Bod's images site just as I was preparing to teach Exodus to my >grad. > seminar last spring. What the Bod is doing here seems a good > solution: > the images are available for free; you can get an accurate > text of the > Junius poems free too. But the CD adds value for those > willing and able > to pony up the (perfectly reasonable) £50.
Well, it adds value for most. Not for me, since I run Linux. >
Not for the > large numbers of medievalists who run Mac OS X. I think it a really > dreadful mistake to use MS's extensions to JavaScript,
forcing people to > use The Worst Browser Now Available. On the
other hand, the > Dictionary > of Old English made the same mistake, so at least you're in > good company.
Peter Elizabeth Solopova wrote:
Digital Medievalist Journal (Inaugural Issue Fall 2004). Call
for > >papers: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/cfp.htm
Dear All,
The Junius 11 CD-ROM (Bodleian Digital Texts 1) was published by the Bodleian rather than OUP. The Bodleian supported the project >
financially (the development of software), provided the images and > contributed to the development of the interface. All the > technical
and > >academic work was done by Burnard Muir and his team. The > images published > >on the CD were already available when the work on the > project started six > >years ago: they are still available free of charge for > personal use by > >researchers via Early Manuscripts at Oxford University > >(http://image.ox.ac.uk/). The next project in the series > will be MS. Auct. > >F. 2.13 (Terence's Comedies). The images are also available > via the Early > >Manuscripts at Oxford University site. The CD-ROM works only > with Internet > >Explorer because Microsoft's implementation of JavaScript > was used (you may
have noticed the use of JavaScript in the extract posted by >
Martin). As far > >as I know Burnard Muir's team will try to overcome this > limitation in the > >next CD-ROM.
Elizabeth
Dr. Elizabeth Solopova Department of Special Collections and Western Manuscripts Bodleian Library Broad Street Oxford OX1 3BG Tel.: +44 (0)1865-277073 E-mail: es@bodley.ox.ac.uk Internet: > >http://www.bodley.ox.ac.uk/ http://www.bodley.ox.ac.uk/dept/scwmss/
>
Project web site: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/ dm-l mailing list dm-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l
> _______________________________________________
Project web site: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/ dm-l mailing list dm-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l
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Martin K. Foys Assistant Professor Department of English Hood College Frederick, MD 21701 vox: 301~696~3740 fax: 301~696~3586 ether: foys@hood.edu Bayeux Tapestry Digital Edition, Choice 2004 Outstanding Academic Title: http://www.boydell.co.uk/choice.htm _______________________________________________ Project web site: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/ dm-l mailing list dm-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l
Project web site: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/ dm-l mailing list dm-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l
-- Daniel Paul O'Donnell Associate Professor of English University of Lethbridge Lethbridge AB T1K 3M4 Tel. +1 (403) 329-2377 Fax. +1 (403) 382-7191
Does anybody have an XSLT solution to transforming the P1 SGML to P4 XML and via XSL to xhtml? That might be an inneresting test of the durability of encoding standards and the true portability of structural markup and XSL.
You can't run XSLT on SGML files, so this is not a very sensible question as phrased. However, migrating SGML to XML is very easily done using a nifty utility called osx, of which we have just done a windows port (sorry, but the Mac version is still a glint in someone else's eye). See the TEI SGML-XML migration workgroup's pages at http://www.tei-c.org/Activities/MI/ for general info on sgml to xml migration. I dont know that there's much difference between P1 and P4 as far as the OE Corpse is concerned.
I have a very nice XML version of a small subset of the OE corpus with POS codes and lemmatization which I use as a testbed for Xaira, our new XML indexer. If anyone would like to have a play with that, I'd be pleased to make it available.
-dan
Digital Medievalist Journal (Inaugural Issue Fall 2004). Call for papers: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/cfp.htm
That's what UVA's Electronic Text Center does when it can. But it can't always get permission to do so. CETEDOC, to take an example well known to this mob, must be used in situ on CD only. Back when Patrologia Latina was on CD, they gave permission to network it as long as access could be restricted to UVA users. Guess which I was most likely to use?
Peter
Martin K. Foys wrote:
Digital Medievalist Journal (Inaugural Issue Fall 2004). Call for papers: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/cfp.htm
Sure, sure. But can't you archive most of the CDs, and even run them in network environments, once you have purchased them?
~ Martin Foys
On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 10:14:30 -0600 "Binkley, Peter" Peter.Binkley@ualberta.ca wrote:
Digital Medievalist Journal (Inaugural Issue Fall 2004). Call for papers: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/cfp.htm
From the point of view of a librarian, CDs are the worst way to
distribute
this kind of project. We've got lots of CDs purchased in the '90s on our shelves, that are now unusable due to deterioration of the media or obsoleteness of the platform. Anything that depends on current browsers will suffer the same fate before many more of us have tenure. An online source, with institutional backing that ensures it will stay online and be maintained as technology changes, is much to be prefered. I'd be willing to sacrifice a lot of functionality for the sake of permanence, since the functionality will evaporate anyway with the next generation of browsers. The ongoing institutional support has to be sufficient to re-engineer the project from time to time to keep it working with new browsers and other tools as yet unimagined, which is no small commitment. It makes sense therefore to avoid doing one-off development and instead develop standard tools and protocols for presenting these projects. Peter Binkley Digital Initiatives Technology Librarian Information Technology Services 4-30 Cameron Library University of Alberta Libraries Edmonton, Alberta Canada T6G 2J8 Phone: (780) 492-3743 Fax: (780) 492-9243 e-mail: peter.binkley@ualberta.ca
-----Original Message----- From: Peter Baker [mailto:psb6m@virginia.edu] > Sent: Tuesday, July
20, 2004 06:36 AM
To: elizabeth.solopova@bodley.ox.ac.uk; Digital Medievalist >
Community mailing list
Subject: Re: [dm-l] Re: Exeter Book CD: for free?
>Digital Medievalist Journal (Inaugural Issue Fall 2004). Call >
for papers: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/cfp.htm
Thanks for this clarification, Elizabeth. I was very excited > to
find the > Bod's images site just as I was preparing to teach Exodus to my >grad. > seminar last spring. What the Bod is doing here seems a good > solution: > the images are available for free; you can get an accurate > text of the > Junius poems free too. But the CD adds value for those > willing and able > to pony up the (perfectly reasonable) £50.
Well, it adds value for most. Not for me, since I run Linux. >
Not for the > large numbers of medievalists who run Mac OS X. I think it a really > dreadful mistake to use MS's extensions to JavaScript,
forcing people to > use The Worst Browser Now Available. On the
other hand, the > Dictionary > of Old English made the same mistake, so at least you're in > good company.
Peter Elizabeth Solopova wrote:
>Digital Medievalist Journal (Inaugural Issue Fall 2004). Call
for > >papers: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/cfp.htm
Dear All,
The Junius 11 CD-ROM (Bodleian Digital Texts 1) was published by the Bodleian rather than OUP. The Bodleian supported the project >
financially (the development of software), provided the images and > contributed to the development of the interface. All the > technical
and > >academic work was done by Burnard Muir and his team. The > images published > >on the CD were already available when the work on the > project started six > >years ago: they are still available free of charge for > personal use by > >researchers via Early Manuscripts at Oxford University > >(http://image.ox.ac.uk/). The next project in the series > will be MS. Auct. > >F. 2.13 (Terence's Comedies). The images are also available > via the Early > >Manuscripts at Oxford University site. The CD-ROM works only > with Internet > >Explorer because Microsoft's implementation of JavaScript > was used (you may
have noticed the use of JavaScript in the extract posted by >
Martin). As far > >as I know Burnard Muir's team will try to overcome this > limitation in the > >next CD-ROM.
Elizabeth
Dr. Elizabeth Solopova Department of Special Collections and Western Manuscripts Bodleian Library Broad Street Oxford OX1 3BG Tel.: +44 (0)1865-277073 E-mail: es@bodley.ox.ac.uk Internet: > >http://www.bodley.ox.ac.uk/ http://www.bodley.ox.ac.uk/dept/scwmss/
Project web site: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/ dm-l mailing list dm-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l
> >
>_______________________________________________
Project web site: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/ dm-l mailing list dm-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l
Project web site: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/ dm-l mailing list dm-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l
Martin K. Foys Assistant Professor Department of English Hood College Frederick, MD 21701 vox: 301~696~3740 fax: 301~696~3586 ether: foys@hood.edu Bayeux Tapestry Digital Edition, Choice 2004 Outstanding Academic Title: http://www.boydell.co.uk/choice.htm _______________________________________________ Project web site: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/ dm-l mailing list dm-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l
Project web site: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/ dm-l mailing list dm-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l
-- Daniel Paul O'Donnell Associate Professor of English University of Lethbridge Lethbridge AB T1K 3M4 Tel. +1 (403) 329-2377 Fax. +1 (403) 382-7191
Project web site: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/ dm-l mailing list dm-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l
Quoting Lou-at-home lou.burnard@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk:
You can't run XSLT on SGML files, so this is not a very sensible question as phrased. However, migrating SGML to XML is very easily done using a nifty utility called osx, of which we have just done a windows port (sorry, but the Mac version is still a glint in someone else's eye).
You may not be talking about the same thing, but I've been very happily converting SGML to XML using osx on my Powerbook for months. I installed it from the opensp3 package using fink (google fink for details). Wouldn't work on OS9, of course...
I'm not really familiar with everything that goes on in the background with SGML catalogs and so forth, but it certainly can work on a mac.
David Mimno Perseus Project
That's the one. Which version of open sp is it though? In particular does it have the features of the Open Sp 1.5.1 release?
If so, we need it on the TEI website!
David M. Mimno wrote:
Digital Medievalist Journal (Inaugural Issue Fall 2004). Call for papers: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/cfp.htm
Quoting Lou-at-home lou.burnard@computing-services.oxford.ac.uk:
You can't run XSLT on SGML files, so this is not a very sensible question as phrased. However, migrating SGML to XML is very easily done using a nifty utility called osx, of which we have just done a windows port (sorry, but the Mac version is still a glint in someone else's eye).
You may not be talking about the same thing, but I've been very happily converting SGML to XML using osx on my Powerbook for months. I installed it from the opensp3 package using fink (google fink for details). Wouldn't work on OS9, of course...
I'm not really familiar with everything that goes on in the background with SGML catalogs and so forth, but it certainly can work on a mac.
David Mimno Perseus Project
Project web site: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/ dm-l mailing list dm-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l
Re XSL for SGML > XML. One of the XSL bibles said this was easy enough to do, though I've not tried it and don't know if you need to tweak anything.
Re OTA P1. It has been a number of years since I dealt with it, but I believe the use of the P1 standard does mean it doesn't work right of the box any more. Some of the elements have different names, and I think (though don't remember exactly) that some tags may end in </>. Most importantly, the P1 dtd didn't come with the version I had. I converted it early on in my acquaintance with SGML, and remember I spent some time trying to figure out what dtd to use. I don't have access to the files right now, but the DOCTYPE may have been ambiguous or something as well.
In converting it, I remember extracting all the elements, converting them to P3 (as it then was) fixing the doctype and then using it. I suspect it won't work out of the box with anything that needs access to the DOCTYPE (I was using Multidoc at the time).
-dan
On Tue, 20 Jul 2004, Daniel O'Donnell wrote:
James will know better than I, but I believe the OTA Corpus is the 1993 TEI P1 text.
Sorry for the delay, I wanted to go look at the files to double-check, but he current version of the Dictionary of Old English Corpus (0163) that we distribute is the 1998 version. It is P3 TEI SGML. I believe the agreement is that we distribute the penultimate version. We don't distribute the searching software.
Our other Anglo-Saxon resources are as follows:
0163: Complete corpus of Old English [Electronic resource] : the Toronto Dictionary of Old English Corpus / compiled by the University of Toronto Centre for Medieval Studies.(R) 0511: Cartularium Saxonicum : a collection of charters relating to Anglo-Saxon history / by Walter de Gray Birch (F) 0813: King Alfred's version of St Augustine's Soliloquies (F) 0815: Alfred's Orosius (F) 1477: Helsinki corpus of English texts (R) 1936: Anglo-Saxon poetic records (F) 2425: The York-Helsinki parsed corpus of Old English poetry (R) 2462: The York-Toronto-Helsinki Parsed Corpus of Old English prose (R) 2463: Ancrene Wisse Preface (R)
With (F) indicating a text that is freely downloadable, and (R) indicating one that is restricted and so requires a printed form.
Old and Middle English texts are one of the areas that we are quite interested in getting more complete coverage and more modern editions of texts. Any electronic texts these areas that members of this list would like to deposit would be more than welcome.
-James
--- Dr James Cummings, Oxford Text Archive, University of Oxford James dot Cummings at oucs dot ox dot ac dot uk
On Thu, 22 Jul 2004, James Cummings wrote:
Our other Anglo-Saxon resources are as follows:
0163: Complete corpus of Old English [Electronic resource] : the Toronto Dictionary of Old English Corpus / compiled by the University of Toronto Centre for Medieval Studies.(R) 0511: Cartularium Saxonicum : a collection of charters relating to Anglo-Saxon history / by Walter de Gray Birch (F) 0813: King Alfred's version of St Augustine's Soliloquies (F) 0815: Alfred's Orosius (F) 1477: Helsinki corpus of English texts (R) 1936: Anglo-Saxon poetic records (F) 2425: The York-Helsinki parsed corpus of Old English poetry (R) 2462: The York-Toronto-Helsinki Parsed Corpus of Old English prose (R) 2463: Ancrene Wisse Preface (R)
And as soon as you make a list like this you are bound to miss some out *sigh*. Some accessions I neglected to include are:
2450: Metric syntactic scan of the Anglo-Saxon poetic records (R) 2453: Fontes Anglo-Saxonici: a register of written sources used by authors in Anglo-Saxon England (F) 2470: The Brooklyn Corpus of Old English: TEI XML conformant edition (F)
With (F) indicating a text that is freely downloadable, and (R) indicating one that is restricted and so requires a printed form.
-James --- Dr James Cummings, Oxford Text Archive, University of Oxford James dot Cummings at oucs dot ox dot ac dot uk
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Binkley, Peter -
Daniel O'Donnell -
David M. Mimno -
James Cummings -
Lou Burnard -
Lou-at-home
-
Martin K. Foys -
Peter Baker