On Wednesday, May 21, 2014, Gabriel Bodard gabriel.bodard@kcl.ac.uk wrote:—Quick comment re the journal: I'd very much hope that wherever the journal migrates to (and Revues.org or similar would seem useful) the old, transparent, human-readable, "cool" URLs remain live permanently, even if as rewrites/redirects. I've cited many of those urls in dozens of places, including in print (!).—
Seconded. This would be tres useful for many of us.
Agreement on all points, and thanks to the hard-working few who have put so much into keeping the old site up this long.
Out of curiosity, if we shut the wiki down, will the community still have the opportunity to contribute to the blog in a similar fashion? I realize that the original intent of the wiki was to have a resource created by the community. Since the current one was predominantly populated by the board members, it hasn't met with expectations. Does the Board envision that the proposed blog would encourage more input?
Best,
~Sarah Pf.
On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 10:23 AM, dm-l-request@uleth.ca wrote:
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Today's Topics:
- Re: Proposed Changes to DM (Kalvesmaki, Joel)
- Re: Proposed Changes to DM (Gabriel Bodard)
- Re: Proposed Changes to DM (Grover Zinn)
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Kalvesmaki, Joel" KalvesmakiJ@doaks.org To: "dm-l@uleth.ca" dm-l@uleth.ca Cc: Date: Wed, 21 May 2014 13:45:34 +0000 Subject: Re: [dm-l] Proposed Changes to DM My research in late antiquity falls between the worlds of classical and medieval scholarship. So when I first began to consider which Wiki to contribute to, DM or the Digital Classicist (wiki.digitalclassicist.org), I opted for the latter because it had garnered the most contributions and was at the time the most active. But I wondered at the time why medievalists and classicists really needed separate wikis anyway, since the material that was populating the pages applied to any field studying pre-modernity. Material surfaces in both spheres of exploration that could benefit any other. Thus, the "classicist" in "Digital Classicist" is not restricted to pre-2nd c. material; their wiki already has quite a lot of medieval and Byzantine content on it.
So instead of altering the bylaws, why not simply have DM endorse either the DC wiki or a comparable one? Follow the road of collaboration?
Best wishes,
jk
Joel Kalvesmaki Editor in Byzantine Studies Dumbarton Oaks 1703 32nd St. NW Washington, DC 20007 (202) 339-6435
From: dm-l [dm-l-bounces@uleth.ca] on behalf of Stokes, Peter [ peter.stokes@kcl.ac.uk] Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 8:05 AM To: dm-l@uleth.ca Subject: [SPAM - Header] - [dm-l] Proposed Changes to DM - Email found in subject
Dear all,
I apologise for the length of this e-mail, but I write regarding a series of fairly fundamental changes to the DM infrastructure that we have been planning for some time now. Given the scale of these changes, we on the DM Board think it is important to explain these in some detail and request feedback from the Community before we go ahead with them. They will also require a change of the Byelaws, and so again we need input from the Community for this.
Unfortunately the existing infrastructure has proven unmanageable. The wiki and mailing-list have both been subject to large-scale spam attacks, such that the wiki now contains many many thousands of articles, only 70 or so of which are genuine. The wiki has also had almost no activity beyond that of the Board, and so it has not been doing the job that we had hoped. Furthermore the website itself, which we have been hosting and coding ourselves (with substantial help from James Cummings and Dan O’Donnell) is also proving increasingly difficult to manage: it depends on the generosity of James and Dan to host and administer, even adding new pages is not trivial, and it has needed a dramatic overhaul for some time but to do this requires much more time and effort than we have been able to manage. For all of these reasons, we propose the following:
- Moving the static website from the existing infrastructure (Cocoon +
TEI + custom XSLT) to a standard CMS (currently Wordpress). 2. Closing down the wiki entirely and replacing it with a blog. 3. For the moment we are leaving the Journal in place, but we are very likely to move it to a dedicated open journal hosting of some sort. We have been discussing this in some detail with Revues.org but are not yet committed to this.
As most of you have realised, we have already set up a Wordpress version of the site at http://digitalmedievalist.wordpress.com/, and this is already proving to overcome the problems listed above. The proposal is therefore to make this the DM site and close down the old one, except perhaps for the Journal.
However, the current Byelaws require that DM maintains a wiki (see < http://digitalmedievalist.wordpress.com/about/byelaws/#wiki%3E). The Board is therefore not free to close the existing wiki without first changing the Byelaws. Even if we chose to keep the wiki, however, the Board feels that the Byelaws should not lock us into using any single technology, and so they should be changed even if we keep the existing infrastructure. The details of the proposed changes to the Byelaws will be posted shortly as a separate e-mail and on the new website, but in essence we propose simply to replace the term 'wiki' with 'information resources' and to adapt the containing sentences accordingly.
We would be grateful for any feedback about any aspect of this, preferably by e-mail to the list for general discussion, or alternatively to board@digitalmedievalist.org or any members of the Board directly. The next Board meeting is 4pm GMT+1 on Monday 2 June, at which point any comments will be discussed, and any changes in the Byelaws will be presented to the membership for vote shortly after that (as specified in §9 of the Byelaws: < http://digitalmedievalist.wordpress.com/about/byelaws/#amendments%3E).
Thank you, and we look forward to receiving your comments.
Peter Stokes (on behalf of the Executive Board)
-- Dr Peter Stokes Senior Lecturer Department of Digital Humanities King's College London Room 218, 2nd Floor 26-29 Drury Lane London, WC2B 5RL Tel: +44 (0)20 7848 2813 peter.stokes@kcl.ac.uk
Digital Medievalist -- http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/ Journal: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/journal/ Journal Editors: editors _AT_ digitalmedievalist.org News: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/news/ Wiki: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/wiki/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/digitalmedieval Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=49320313760 Discussion list: dm-l@uleth.ca Change list options: http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Gabriel Bodard gabriel.bodard@kcl.ac.uk To: dm-l@uleth.ca Cc: Date: Wed, 21 May 2014 15:00:27 +0100 Subject: Re: [dm-l] Proposed Changes to DM I'd be happy to see a lot of Byzantine and other Mediaeval-ish material migrate to the DC wiki if desirable. The DC community are in fact just starting a series of wiki sprints to further improve and build on the content therein. (We sympathize with the problem of spam--we have resisted this only by making editing the wiki by "invitation only", which means that an admin has to create you an account to give you even the most basic editing rights. It's a pain, and no doubt limits participation to those who can be bothered to email us, but the DM experience that only board members do much editing anyway probably suggests that this isn't a tragedy.)
I don't think we'd want to see the DC wiki become a sort of generic "Digital Pre-Modernist" site, though, so let's try to keep some basic coherence. I think much of the content in DM was of a different order from the DC wiki, anyway...
Quick comment re the journal: I'd very much hope that wherever the journal migrates to (and Revues.org or similar would seem useful) the old, transparent, human-readable, "cool" URLs remain live permanently, even if as rewrites/redirects. I've cited many of those urls in dozens of places, including in print (!).
Otherwise, I endorse everything Peter suggests below.
Best,
Gabby
On 2014-05-21 14:45, Kalvesmaki, Joel wrote:
My research in late antiquity falls between the worlds of classical and medieval scholarship. So when I first began to consider which Wiki to contribute to, DM or the Digital Classicist (wiki.digitalclassicist.org), I opted for the latter because it had garnered the most contributions and was at the time the most active. But I wondered at the time why medievalists and classicists really needed separate wikis anyway, since the material that was populating the pages applied to any field studying pre-modernity. Material surfaces in both spheres of exploration that could benefit any other. Thus, the "classicist" in "Digital Classicist" is not restricted to pre-2nd c. material; their wiki already has quite a lot of medieval and Byzantine content on it.
So instead of altering the bylaws, why not simply have DM endorse either the DC wiki or a comparable one? Follow the road of collaboration?
Best wishes,
jk
Joel Kalvesmaki Editor in Byzantine Studies Dumbarton Oaks 1703 32nd St. NW Washington, DC 20007 (202) 339-6435
From: dm-l [dm-l-bounces@uleth.ca] on behalf of Stokes, Peter [ peter.stokes@kcl.ac.uk] Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 8:05 AM To: dm-l@uleth.ca Subject: [SPAM - Header] - [dm-l] Proposed Changes to DM - Email found in subject
Dear all,
I apologise for the length of this e-mail, but I write regarding a series of fairly fundamental changes to the DM infrastructure that we have been planning for some time now. Given the scale of these changes, we on the DM Board think it is important to explain these in some detail and request feedback from the Community before we go ahead with them. They will also require a change of the Byelaws, and so again we need input from the Community for this.
Unfortunately the existing infrastructure has proven unmanageable. The wiki and mailing-list have both been subject to large-scale spam attacks, such that the wiki now contains many many thousands of articles, only 70 or so of which are genuine. The wiki has also had almost no activity beyond that of the Board, and so it has not been doing the job that we had hoped. Furthermore the website itself, which we have been hosting and coding ourselves (with substantial help from James Cummings and Dan O’Donnell) is also proving increasingly difficult to manage: it depends on the generosity of James and Dan to host and administer, even adding new pages is not trivial, and it has needed a dramatic overhaul for some time but to do this requires much more time and effort than we have been able to manage. For all of these reasons, we propose the following:
- Moving the static website from the existing infrastructure (Cocoon +
TEI + custom XSLT) to a standard CMS (currently Wordpress). 2. Closing down the wiki entirely and replacing it with a blog. 3. For the moment we are leaving the Journal in place, but we are very likely to move it to a dedicated open journal hosting of some sort. We have been discussing this in some detail with Revues.org but are not yet committed to this.
As most of you have realised, we have already set up a Wordpress version of the site at http://digitalmedievalist.wordpress.com/, and this is already proving to overcome the problems listed above. The proposal is therefore to make this the DM site and close down the old one, except perhaps for the Journal.
However, the current Byelaws require that DM maintains a wiki (see < http://digitalmedievalist.wordpress.com/about/byelaws/#wiki%3E). The Board is therefore not free to close the existing wiki without first changing the Byelaws. Even if we chose to keep the wiki, however, the Board feels that the Byelaws should not lock us into using any single technology, and so they should be changed even if we keep the existing infrastructure. The details of the proposed changes to the Byelaws will be posted shortly as a separate e-mail and on the new website, but in essence we propose simply to replace the term 'wiki' with 'information resources' and to adapt the containing sentences accordingly.
We would be grateful for any feedback about any aspect of this, preferably by e-mail to the list for general discussion, or alternatively to board@digitalmedievalist.org or any members of the Board directly. The next Board meeting is 4pm GMT+1 on Monday 2 June, at which point any comments will be discussed, and any changes in the Byelaws will be presented to the membership for vote shortly after that (as specified in §9 of the Byelaws: http://digitalmedievalist.wordpress.com/about/byelaws/# amendments).
Thank you, and we look forward to receiving your comments.
Peter Stokes (on behalf of the Executive Board)
-- Dr Peter Stokes Senior Lecturer Department of Digital Humanities King's College London Room 218, 2nd Floor 26-29 Drury Lane London, WC2B 5RL Tel: +44 (0)20 7848 2813 peter.stokes@kcl.ac.uk
Digital Medievalist -- http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/ Journal: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/journal/ Journal Editors: editors _AT_ digitalmedievalist.org News: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/news/ Wiki: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/wiki/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/digitalmedieval Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=49320313760 Discussion list: dm-l@uleth.ca Change list options: http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l
Digital Medievalist -- http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/ Journal: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/journal/ Journal Editors: editors _AT_ digitalmedievalist.org News: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/news/ Wiki: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/wiki/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/digitalmedieval Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=49320313760 Discussion list: dm-l@uleth.ca Change list options: http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l
-- Dr Gabriel BODARD Researcher in Digital Epigraphy
Digital Humanities King's College London Boris Karloff Building 26-29 Drury Lane London WC2B 5RL
T: +44 (0)20 7848 1388 E: gabriel.bodard@kcl.ac.uk
http://www.digitalclassicist.org/ http://www.currentepigraphy.org/
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Grover Zinn grover.zinn@oberlin.edu To: dm-l@uleth.ca Cc: Date: Wed, 21 May 2014 11:23:07 -0400 Subject: Re: [dm-l] Proposed Changes to DM
Thanks to Peter for such a clear presentation of problems and solutions. I support all suggestions from Peter and the board.
Best
Grover
On Wednesday, May 21, 2014, Gabriel Bodard gabriel.bodard@kcl.ac.uk wrote:
I'd be happy to see a lot of Byzantine and other Mediaeval-ish material migrate to the DC wiki if desirable. The DC community are in fact just starting a series of wiki sprints to further improve and build on the content therein. (We sympathize with the problem of spam--we have resisted this only by making editing the wiki by "invitation only", which means that an admin has to create you an account to give you even the most basic editing rights. It's a pain, and no doubt limits participation to those who can be bothered to email us, but the DM experience that only board members do much editing anyway probably suggests that this isn't a tragedy.)
I don't think we'd want to see the DC wiki become a sort of generic "Digital Pre-Modernist" site, though, so let's try to keep some basic coherence. I think much of the content in DM was of a different order from the DC wiki, anyway...
Quick comment re the journal: I'd very much hope that wherever the journal migrates to (and Revues.org or similar would seem useful) the old, transparent, human-readable, "cool" URLs remain live permanently, even if as rewrites/redirects. I've cited many of those urls in dozens of places, including in print (!).
Otherwise, I endorse everything Peter suggests below.
Best,
Gabby
On 2014-05-21 14:45, Kalvesmaki, Joel wrote:
My research in late antiquity falls between the worlds of classical and medieval scholarship. So when I first began to consider which Wiki to contribute to, DM or the Digital Classicist (wiki.digitalclassicist.org), I opted for the latter because it had garnered the most contributions and was at the time the most active. But I wondered at the time why medievalists and classicists really needed separate wikis anyway, since the material that was populating the pages applied to any field studying pre-modernity. Material surfaces in both spheres of exploration that could benefit any other. Thus, the "classicist" in "Digital Classicist" is not restricted to pre-2nd c. material; their wiki already has quite a lot of medieval and Byzantine content on it.
So instead of altering the bylaws, why not simply have DM endorse either the DC wiki or a comparable one? Follow the road of collaboration?
Best wishes,
jk
Joel Kalvesmaki Editor in Byzantine Studies Dumbarton Oaks 1703 32nd St. NW Washington, DC 20007 (202) 339-6435
From: dm-l [dm-l-bounces@uleth.ca] on behalf of Stokes, Peter [ peter.stokes@kcl.ac.uk] Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 8:05 AM To: dm-l@uleth.ca Subject: [SPAM - Header] - [dm-l] Proposed Changes to DM - Email found in subject
Dear all,
I apologise for the length of this e-mail, but I write regarding a series of fairly fundamental changes to the DM infrastructure that we have been planning for some time now. Given the scale of these changes, we on the DM Board think it is important to explain these in some detail and request feedback from the Community before we go ahead with them. They will also require a change of the Byelaws, and so again we need input from the Community for this.
Unfortunately the existing infrastructure has proven unmanageable. The wiki and mailing-list have both been subject to large-scale spam attacks, such that the wiki now contains many many thousands of articles, only 70 or so of which are genuine. The wiki has also had almost no activity beyond that of the Board, and so it has not been doing the job that we had hoped. Furthermore the website itself, which we have been hosting and coding ourselves (with substantial help from James Cummings and Dan O’Donnell) is also proving increasingly difficult to manage: it depends on the generosity of James and Dan to host and administer, even adding new pages is not trivial, and it has needed a dramatic overhaul for some time but to do this requires much more time and effort than we have been able to manage. For all of these reasons, we propose the following:
- Moving the static website from the existing infrastructure (Cocoon +
TEI + custom XSLT) to a standard CMS (currently Wordpress). 2. Closing down the wiki entirely and replacing it with a blog. 3. For the moment we are leaving the Journal in place, but we are very likely to move it to a dedicated open journal hosting of some sort. We have been discussing this in some detail with Revues.org but are not yet committed to this.
As most of you have realised, we have already set up a Wordpress version of the site at http://digitalmedievalist.wordpress.com/, and this is already proving to overcome the problems listed above. The proposal is therefore to make this the DM site and close down the old one, except perhaps for the Journal.
However, the current Byelaws require that DM maintains a wiki (see < http://digitalmedievalist.wordpress.com/about/byelaws/#wiki%3E). The Board is therefore not free to close the existing wiki without first changing the Byelaws. Even if we chose to keep the wiki, however, the Board feels that the Byelaws should not lock us into using any single technology, and so they should be changed even if we keep the existing infrastructure. The details of the proposed changes to the Byelaws will be posted shortly as a separate e-mail and on the new website, but in essence we propose simply to replace the term 'wiki' with 'information resources' and to adapt the containing sentences accordingly.
We would be grateful for any feedback about any aspect of this, preferably by e-mail to the list for general discussion, or alternatively to board@digitalmedievalist.org or any members of the Board directly. The next Board meeting is 4pm GMT+1 on Monday 2 June, at which point any comments will be discussed, and any changes in the Byelaws will be presented to the membership for vote shortly after that (as sp
-- Dr Gabriel BODARD Researcher in Digital Epigraphy
Digital Humanities King's College London Boris Karloff Building 26-29 Drury Lane London WC2B 5RL
T: +44 (0)20 7848 1388 E: gabriel.bodard@kcl.ac.uk
http://www.digitalclassicist.org/ http://www.currentepigraphy.org/
Digital Medievalist -- http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/ Journal: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/journal/ Journal Editors: editors _AT_ digitalmedievalist.org News: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/news/ Wiki: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/wiki/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/digitalmedieval Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=49320313760 Discussion list: dm-l@uleth.ca Change list options: http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l
-- Grover Zinn William H. Danforth Professor of Religion, emeritus former Associate Dean of the College of Arts and Sciences Oberlin College Oberlin, OH 44074 grover.zinn (at) oberlin.edu
Digital Medievalist -- http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/ Journal: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/journal/ Journal Editors: editors _AT_ digitalmedievalist.org News: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/news/ Wiki: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/wiki/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/digitalmedieval Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=49320313760 Discussion list: dm-l@uleth.ca Change list options: http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l