I am afraid this is the same procedure as for British Library, Bodleian Library, Oesterreichische Nationalbibliothek Wien, Paris BNF and many others, even if these are public institutions and not private, as BAV is. According to my experience, one has to pay for getting and reproducing images of the mss such libraries preserve. The law for Italian (not Vatican) State libraries, for example, allows to give free permission just for non commercial publications under a given print run.
Best wishes
F. Stella
----Messaggio originale---- Da: cormierrj@longwood.edu Data: 03/02/2013 22.50 A: "dm-l@uleth.ca"dm-l@uleth.ca Ogg: Fwd: [dm-l] Jan 2013: 256 BAV MSs accessible on-line
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Back in late 2009, I tried to obtain permission from the BAV to use one image of a folio from a Virgil manuscript as a cover or at least as a frontispiece for my forthcoming monograph, "The Methods of Medieval Translators (2011). Permission denied. -Raymond Cormier
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tab
-------- Original message -------- Subject:Re: [dm-l] Jan 2013: 256 BAV MSs accessible on-line From:Neven Jovanović neven.jovanovic@ffzg.hr To:dm-l@uleth.ca Cc:
Hi,
regarding Vatican's copyright statement, I think that there are some things that can be built, or prototyped -- e. g. a text linking to a page of a MS like they did in <monumenta.ch> -- that do not infringe Vatican Library's copyright. Such projects, surely, risk that the link will vanish overnight -- but the site does offer us (in German, I guess) "Persistente URL" for its images.
And I guess that it would depend what we ask the authorisation for. A scholarly undertaking, such as publishing an on-line edition which uses BAV's images, should be acceptable, and they should actually be glad that somebody wants to do this. Otherwise, why spend so much money for digitisation?
Best,
Neven Jovanovic Zagreb, Croatia
On 2 February 2013 02:58, Dot Porter dot.porter@gmail.com wrote:
"Neither the text nor the images may be reproduced, in any form, without the authorisation of the Vatican Library, 00120, Vatican City. "
Is this from the BAV website? I haven't noticed that... If it means the BAV think they hold a copyright on the *TEXT* in the manuscript, that's totaly unheard of - and absurd! :s Or does "text" refer to the manuscript descriptions? In this case, fair enough.
Marjorie, a bit puzzled :) Digital Medievalist -- http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/ Journal: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/journal/ Journal Editors: editors _AT_ digitalmedievalist.org News: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/news/ Wiki: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/wiki/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/digitalmedieval Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=49320313760 Discussion list: dm-l@uleth.ca Change list options: http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l
Digital Medievalist -- http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/ Journal: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/journal/ Journal Editors: editors _AT_ digitalmedievalist.org News: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/news/ Wiki: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/wiki/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/digitalmedieval Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gidI320313760 Discussion list: dm-l@uleth.ca Change list options: http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l
We have to see all of this as baby steps. In 2010, I was at a conference in Paris where a regular visitor to the Vatican Library pronounced that the Vatican would NEVER digitize, much less release in any way, their manuscript collection. A little over a year later, I sat in a meeting with the Vice-Prefect of the Vatican LIbrary where he outlined their plans to begin digitizing the collection.
I was shocked that even these images have been made available, but this is probably becasue they are connected to the Lorsch Project.
I would not say that this policy of contol will last. I remain optimistic that all the libraries in Europe will eventually come around to open data. It is a challenging decision to make, given the history of these institutions. There is a lot of tradition and institutional intertia to overcome. We must continue to exter pressure and demonstrate how valuable open data can be for scholarship.
Jim
On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 9:26 AM, centrostudicomparati@libero.it < centrostudicomparati@libero.it> wrote:
I am afraid this is the same procedure as for British Library, Bodleian Library, Oesterreichische Nationalbibliothek Wien, Paris BNF and many others, even if these are public institutions and not private, as BAV is. According to my experience, one has to pay for getting and reproducing images of the mss such libraries preserve. The law for Italian (not Vatican) State libraries, for example, allows to give free permission just for non commercial publications under a given print run.
Best wishes
F. Stella
----Messaggio originale---- Da: cormierrj@longwood.edu Data: 03/02/2013 22.50 A: "dm-l@uleth.ca"dm-l@uleth.ca Ogg: Fwd: [dm-l] Jan 2013: 256 BAV MSs accessible on-line
Back in late 2009, I tried to obtain permission from the BAV to use one image of a folio from a Virgil manuscript as a cover or at least as a frontispiece for my forthcoming monograph, "The Methods of Medieval Translators (2011). Permission denied. -Raymond Cormier
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tab
-------- Original message -------- Subject:Re: [dm-l] Jan 2013: 256 BAV MSs accessible on-line From:Neven Jovanović neven.jovanovic@ffzg.hr To:dm-l@uleth.ca Cc:
Hi,
regarding Vatican's copyright statement, I think that there are some things that can be built, or prototyped -- e. g. a text linking to a page of a MS like they did in <monumenta.ch> -- that do not infringe Vatican Library's copyright. Such projects, surely, risk that the link will vanish overnight -- but the site does offer us (in German, I guess) "Persistente URL" for its images.
And I guess that it would depend what we ask the authorisation for. A scholarly undertaking, such as publishing an on-line edition which uses BAV's images, should be acceptable, and they should actually be glad that somebody wants to do this. Otherwise, why spend so much money for digitisation?
Best,
Neven Jovanovic Zagreb, Croatia
On 2 February 2013 02:58, Dot Porter dot.porter@gmail.com wrote:
"Neither the text nor the images may be reproduced, in any form, without the authorisation of the Vatican Library, 00120, Vatican City. "
Is this from the BAV website? I haven't noticed that... If it means the BAV think they hold a copyright on the *TEXT* in the manuscript, that's
totaly
unheard of - and absurd! :s Or does "text" refer to the manuscript descriptions? In this case, fair enough.
Marjorie, a bit puzzled :) Digital Medievalist -- http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/ Journal: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/journal/ Journal Editors: editors _AT_ digitalmedievalist.org News: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/news/ Wiki: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/wiki/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/digitalmedieval Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=49320313760 Discussion list: dm-l@uleth.ca Change list options: http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l
Digital Medievalist -- http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/ Journal: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/journal/ Journal Editors: editors _AT_ digitalmedievalist.org News: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/news/ Wiki: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/wiki/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/digitalmedieval Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gidI320313760 Discussion list: dm-l@uleth.ca Change list options: http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l
Digital Medievalist -- http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/ Journal: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/journal/ Journal Editors: editors _AT_ digitalmedievalist.org News: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/news/ Wiki: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/wiki/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/digitalmedieval Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=49320313760 Discussion list: dm-l@uleth.ca Change list options: http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l
Hi all,
I do believe this is slowly changing and electronic use of images held by libraries is becoming easier. For example the Bodleian hired a new Associate Director for Digital Library Programmes and Information Technologies in 2012 who is very much in favour of and pushing an open access / open licensing policy wherever possible, but it will take years for that to have a real effect (changing old resources, making new resources available). http://digital.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/ has a growing collection of resources but most of them are still under old licenses, some have CC like licenses but only for 'private use'.
But a couple years ago we were able to convince them to license all the images for our William Godwin's Diary project as Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial. See for example http://godwindiary.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/folio/e.203_0025v where although there is a (google maps based) pan/zoom image viewer there is a link to the full image so that it can be used. (The TEI XML for the transcription is also available.) This page randomly chosen just happens to have Mary Shelley's birth recorded on it. (Sorry... wrong time period).
Wearing a @godwindiary tshirt, James
On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 4:19 PM, James Ginther ginthej@slu.edu wrote:
We have to see all of this as baby steps. In 2010, I was at a conference in Paris where a regular visitor to the Vatican Library pronounced that the Vatican would NEVER digitize, much less release in any way, their manuscript collection. A little over a year later, I sat in a meeting with the Vice-Prefect of the Vatican LIbrary where he outlined their plans to begin digitizing the collection.
I was shocked that even these images have been made available, but this is probably becasue they are connected to the Lorsch Project.
I would not say that this policy of contol will last. I remain optimistic that all the libraries in Europe will eventually come around to open data. It is a challenging decision to make, given the history of these institutions. There is a lot of tradition and institutional intertia to overcome. We must continue to exter pressure and demonstrate how valuable open data can be for scholarship.
Jim
On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 9:26 AM, centrostudicomparati@libero.it < centrostudicomparati@libero.it> wrote:
I am afraid this is the same procedure as for British Library, Bodleian Library, Oesterreichische Nationalbibliothek Wien, Paris BNF and many others, even if these are public institutions and not private, as BAV is. According to my experience, one has to pay for getting and reproducing images of the mss such libraries preserve. The law for Italian (not Vatican) State libraries, for example, allows to give free permission just for non commercial publications under a given print run.
Best wishes
F. Stella
----Messaggio originale---- Da: cormierrj@longwood.edu Data: 03/02/2013 22.50 A: "dm-l@uleth.ca"dm-l@uleth.ca Ogg: Fwd: [dm-l] Jan 2013: 256 BAV MSs accessible on-line
Back in late 2009, I tried to obtain permission from the BAV to use one image of a folio from a Virgil manuscript as a cover or at least as a frontispiece for my forthcoming monograph, "The Methods of Medieval Translators (2011). Permission denied. -Raymond Cormier
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tab
-------- Original message -------- Subject:Re: [dm-l] Jan 2013: 256 BAV MSs accessible on-line From:Neven Jovanović neven.jovanovic@ffzg.hr To:dm-l@uleth.ca Cc:
Hi,
regarding Vatican's copyright statement, I think that there are some things that can be built, or prototyped -- e. g. a text linking to a page of a MS like they did in <monumenta.ch> -- that do not infringe Vatican Library's copyright. Such projects, surely, risk that the link will vanish overnight -- but the site does offer us (in German, I guess) "Persistente URL" for its images.
And I guess that it would depend what we ask the authorisation for. A scholarly undertaking, such as publishing an on-line edition which uses BAV's images, should be acceptable, and they should actually be glad that somebody wants to do this. Otherwise, why spend so much money for digitisation?
Best,
Neven Jovanovic Zagreb, Croatia
On 2 February 2013 02:58, Dot Porter dot.porter@gmail.com wrote:
"Neither the text nor the images may be reproduced, in any form,
without
the authorisation of the Vatican Library, 00120, Vatican City. "
Is this from the BAV website? I haven't noticed that... If it means the BAV think they hold a copyright on the *TEXT* in the manuscript, that's
totaly
unheard of - and absurd! :s Or does "text" refer to the manuscript descriptions? In this case, fair enough.
Marjorie, a bit puzzled :) Digital Medievalist -- http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/ Journal: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/journal/ Journal Editors: editors _AT_ digitalmedievalist.org News: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/news/ Wiki: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/wiki/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/digitalmedieval Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=49320313760 Discussion list: dm-l@uleth.ca Change list options: http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l
Digital Medievalist -- http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/ Journal: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/journal/ Journal Editors: editors _AT_ digitalmedievalist.org News: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/news/ Wiki: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/wiki/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/digitalmedieval Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gidI320313760 Discussion list: dm-l@uleth.ca Change list options: http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l
Digital Medievalist -- http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/ Journal: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/journal/ Journal Editors: editors _AT_ digitalmedievalist.org News: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/news/ Wiki: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/wiki/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/digitalmedieval Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=49320313760 Discussion list: dm-l@uleth.ca Change list options: http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l
--
James R. Ginther, PhD Professor of Medieval Theology, Associate Chair, Department of Theology & Director, Center for Digital Theology Saint Louis University
ginthej@slu.edu Faculty Page: Departmental Pagehttps://sites.google.com/a/slu.edu/james-ginther/ https://sites.google.com/a/slu.edu/james-ginther/Research Blog: http://digital-editor.blogspot.com Twitter: DH_editor http://twitter.com/#!/DH_editor T-PEN: www.tpen.org/
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Talking about baby steps, things are really moving in the right direction at the French national library (BnF): few people have noticed, but now images from the Gallica portal are royalty-free for any non-commercial use. I don' think the news is very widespread, but just go on Gallica, look for instance for a digitized manuscript (example "Latin 12584"), choose any folio and click on "télécharger / imprimer" (download / print), and you'll find a link to the non-commercial and commercial use policies. Best regards, Marjorie
Taking Marjorie's suggestion one step further, the BnF is also supporting persistent links to details of images for embedding - even supplying the code. I haven't seen this advertised broadly either, but:
1. From the zoom view of a folio 1a. Zoom to the desired resolution 2. Click on the "Select a part of the image" button in the upper right-hand part of the screen 3. Highlight the part of the image you wish to save 4. Copy the embed code from the pop-up box 5. Example: <a href='http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8449032x/f9.item' title='Lien vers le document' target='_blank'><img src=' http://gallica.bnf.fr/proxy?method=R&ark=btv1b8449032x.f9&l=4&r=1464,204,194,187' alt='Poésies [de GUILLAUME DE MACHAUT]'/><br/>Poésies [de GUILLAUME DE MACHAUT]<br/> Source: gallica.bnf.fr</a> 5a. Register this snippet if you want with Gallica 6. Embed this in your blog or other site 7. Or simply use the img src URL to show friends the detail you're interested in: http://gallica.bnf.fr/proxy?method=R&ark=btv1b8449032x.f9&l=4&r=...
Best, Ben
On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 2:02 PM, Marjorie Burghart < marjorie.burghart@ehess.fr> wrote:
Talking about baby steps, things are really moving in the right direction at the French national library (BnF): few people have noticed, but now images from the Gallica portal are royalty-free for any non-commercial use. I don' think the news is very widespread, but just go on Gallica, look for instance for a digitized manuscript (example "Latin 12584"), choose any folio and click on "télécharger / imprimer" (download / print), and you'll find a link to the non-commercial and commercial use policies. Best regards, Marjorie
Digital Medievalist -- http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/ Journal: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/journal/ Journal Editors: editors _AT_ digitalmedievalist.org News: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/news/ Wiki: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/wiki/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/digitalmedieval Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=49320313760 Discussion list: dm-l@uleth.ca Change list options: http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l
I've started using this method to "scrapbook" details from the BNF:
jessehurlbut.net
On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 5:31 PM, Ben Albritton blalbritton@gmail.com wrote:
Taking Marjorie's suggestion one step further, the BnF is also supporting persistent links to details of images for embedding - even supplying the code. I haven't seen this advertised broadly either, but:
- From the zoom view of a folio
1a. Zoom to the desired resolution 2. Click on the "Select a part of the image" button in the upper right-hand part of the screen 3. Highlight the part of the image you wish to save 4. Copy the embed code from the pop-up box 5. Example: <a href='http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8449032x/f9.item' title='Lien vers le document' target='_blank'><img src='http://gallica.bnf.fr/proxy?method=R&ark=btv1b8449032x.f9&l=4&r=1464,204,194,187' alt='Poésies [de GUILLAUME DE MACHAUT]'/><br/>Poésies [de GUILLAUME DE MACHAUT]<br/> Source: gallica.bnf.fr</a> 5a. Register this snippet if you want with Gallica 6. Embed this in your blog or other site 7. Or simply use the img src URL to show friends the detail you're interested in: http://gallica.bnf.fr/proxy?method=R&ark=btv1b8449032x.f9&l=4&r=...
Best, Ben
On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 2:02 PM, Marjorie Burghart marjorie.burghart@ehess.fr wrote:
Talking about baby steps, things are really moving in the right direction at the French national library (BnF): few people have noticed, but now images from the Gallica portal are royalty-free for any non-commercial use. I don' think the news is very widespread, but just go on Gallica, look for instance for a digitized manuscript (example "Latin 12584"), choose any folio and click on "télécharger / imprimer" (download / print), and you'll find a link to the non-commercial and commercial use policies. Best regards, Marjorie
Digital Medievalist -- http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/ Journal: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/journal/ Journal Editors: editors _AT_ digitalmedievalist.org News: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/news/ Wiki: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/wiki/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/digitalmedieval Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=49320313760 Discussion list: dm-l@uleth.ca Change list options: http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l
Digital Medievalist -- http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/ Journal: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/journal/ Journal Editors: editors _AT_ digitalmedievalist.org News: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/news/ Wiki: http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/wiki/ Twitter: http://twitter.com/digitalmedieval Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=49320313760 Discussion list: dm-l@uleth.ca Change list options: http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l
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Ben Albritton -
centrostudicomparati＠libero.it -
James Cummings -
James Ginther -
Jesse Hurlbut -
Marjorie Burghart