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2786 discussions

palaeography and computing
by Arianna Ciula 30 Jun '04

30 Jun '04

Dear all, as a Ph.D. student working on palaeography and computing, I find this mailing list very useful and I start my contribution with a question. Is there any sort of DTD designed with the purpose of describing a medieval manuscript, not just in its physical features as a global object, but in its palaeographical features? I mean any kind of XML grill and hierarchy able to encounter description and comments on the shape of letters, of ligatures and so on, even related just to one period and one handwritten style. I know the TEI guidelines and the efforts of some specific projects such as Digital Scriptorium, but none of them seems to me to go into the image with the granularity needed for a palaeographical analysis. Cheers, Arianna Ciula ---------------------- Arianna Ciula arianna.ciula(a)kcl.ac.uk

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wikis
by Jeffrey Fisher 30 Jun '04

30 Jun '04

i've been waiting to see if someone was going to reply to dan's suggestion last week about a wiki. after reading dan's post about publishing, open access, and community standards, i had been thinking that a wiki might be a good idea for this community. is the lack of response a rejection of the idea? or is it more about people being unfamiliar with wikis? in any case, it seems like a good topic to discuss. it might be a good public service for this list to put together a FAQ, as well. i know that's very 80s/90s usenet, but also at least worth thinking about, especially as more and more links to resources are posted to the list. dan: is it possible to get lethbridge to add search functionality to the list archives? that might help with keeping all this collective knowledge accessible down the road. just a thought. cheers, j jeffrey fisher ass't prof religious studies & philosophy bethany college bethany, wv

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Re: [dm-l] wikis
by Joris van.Zundert 30 Jun '04

30 Jun '04

Hi, I think you best would look at http://www.wiki.org and http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WikiWikiWeb for some background information. In short Wiki is the simplest solution for an easy to use open access content management system. It's somewhat like a weblog anyone can contribute to, even if you don't know or don't want to know about HTML/XML. Hope this helps, y.s., Joris >>> J.deRuiter(a)bookmark.demon.nl 6/29/04 21:30:15 >>> > > is the lack of response a rejection of the idea? or is it more about > people being unfamiliar with wikis? > Scuse my asking. What is/are wikis? Jacqueline de Ruiter____________________________________ Zandhofsestraat 127, 3572 GE Utrecht +31(0)30-2734012 / 06-51510174 www.bookmark.demon.nl _______________________________________________ dm-l mailing list dm-l(a)uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l

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Re: Re: [dm-l] palaeography and computing
by Dorothy C. Porter 29 Jun '04

29 Jun '04

-----Original Message----- From: Murray McGillivray <mmcgilli(a)ucalgary.ca> To: Digital Medievalist Community mailing list <dm-l(a)uleth.ca> Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 10:36:24 -0600 Subject: Re: [dm-l] palaeography and computing <snip> The thing that would be most helpful, actually, is a universally accepted "controlled vocabulary" for paleographic description, either verbal or in terms of graphical metrics (or ideally both), on which we could build descriptive structures in XML or whatever. I don't think paleographers are close to having that. ********** Last year I went through the introductions to several Old English facsimiles (Vercelli Book, Hatton 20, Junius 11, Royal 7 C xii; and Ker's Catalogue - whatever was easily available at UK) in an attempt to glean such a controlled vocabulary. It was an interesting experience - paleographers seem to have different terms to describe the same forms, and I found that many terms were rather vague and only made sense when I actually saw the letter in question (ascender "rises well above the bow" or "projects slightly to the left"). And these lengthy descriptions are not always suitable as markup. Dot *************************************** Dorothy Carr Porter, Program Coordinator Collaboratory for Research in Computing for Humanities University of Kentucky 351 William T. Young Library Lexington, KY 40506 dporter(a)uky.edu 859-257-9549 ***************************************

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PDF markup?
by Daniel O'Donnell 29 Jun '04

29 Jun '04

Hello all, A number of stylesheets seem to convert to PDF format. Where do you find out what PDF markup (if that's what it is) looks like? -dan -- Daniel Paul O'Donnell, PhD Associate Professor of English University of Lethbridge Lethbridge AB T1K 3M4 Tel. (403) 329-2377 Fax. (403) 382-7191 E-mail <daniel.odonnell(a)uleth.ca> Home Page <http://people.uleth.ca/~daniel.odonnell/>

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Re: [dm-l] PDF markup?
by MichelleZi＠aol.com 29 Jun '04

29 Jun '04

The newest versions of Word can convert any Word document into a PDF. From the trials I've done, they seem to look and function well. However, I haven't tried to make an interactive pdf or one with much graphics. Btw, they oddly put the pdf function key on the print menu. So you are 'print as pdf' or 'print to file'. I guess it is basically what the computer normally sends to the printer? Michelle Ziegler In a message dated 6/29/2004 11:47:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Jeffrey Fisher <jfisher(a)igc.org> writes: >there are server utilities that convert html to pdf on the fly. i don't >think you can do that with a stylesheet. > >j > >On Monday, June 28, 2004, at 11:05 PM, Daniel O'Donnell wrote: > >> Hello all, >> A number of stylesheets seem to convert to PDF format. Where do you >> find out what PDF markup (if that's what it is) looks like? >> -dan >> >> -- >> Daniel Paul O'Donnell, PhD >> Associate Professor of English >> University of Lethbridge >> Lethbridge AB T1K 3M4 >> Tel. (403) 329-2377 >> Fax. (403) 382-7191 >> E-mail <daniel.odonnell(a)uleth.ca> >> Home Page <http://people.uleth.ca/~daniel.odonnell/> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> dm-l mailing list >> dm-l(a)uleth.ca >> http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l >> > > >_______________________________________________ >dm-l mailing list >dm-l(a)uleth.ca >http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l >

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RE: [dm-l] [Fwd: The time has come to make some <choice>s]
by Binkley, Peter 29 Jun '04

29 Jun '04

For those of us who are new to TEI (ok, just me, then), would someone care to gloss this? P5? Janus tags? Peter Peter Binkley Digital Initiatives Technology Librarian Information Technology Services 4-30 Cameron Library University of Alberta Libraries Edmonton, Alberta Canada T6G 2J8 Phone: (780) 492-3743 Fax: (780) 492-9243 e-mail: peter.binkley(a)ualberta.ca > -----Original Message----- > From: Daniel O'Donnell [mailto:daniel.odonnell@uleth.ca] > Sent: Monday, June 28, 2004 06:22 PM > To: Digital Medievalist list > Subject: [dm-l] [Fwd: The time has come to make some <choice>s] > > > Hello all, > I realise that many of us are on the TEI list and hence have seen > this; it is an important question, however, and I thought I would > distribute it here as well. If you are just beginning in computer > applications, the issue is fairly advanced (though it has > already come > up), and you're not likely to write a position paper on it in > the next > 30 days; I hope in this one instance, you'll forgive me for not > explaining it unless asked. > -dan > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: The time has come to make some s > Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 19:20:35 -0400 > From: Syd Bauman <Syd_Bauman(a)BROWN.EDU> > Reply-To: editors(a)tei-c.org > To: TEI-L(a)LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU > > > > CALL FOR VOLUNTEERS TO INFLUENCE P5! > ---- --- ---------- -- --------- --- > > Over the last year there has been some public discussion of > the "replacement Janus" mechanism for P5. The quick overview > is that, in order to avoid putting content (which might need > markup) in attribute values (which can't have markup), it has > been suggested that we change the so-called Janus tags from > things like > > <corr sic="adnire">admire</corr> > <orig reg="w">vv</orig>ith <orig reg="w">vv</orig>hat charity > the <abbr expan="Text Encoding Initiative Consortium">tei-c</abbr> > > to things like > > <choice> > <sic>adnire</sic> > <corr>admire</corr> > </choice> > <choice><orig>vv</orig><reg>w</reg></choice>ith > <choice> > <reg>w</reg> > <orig>vv</orig> > </choice>hat charity the > <choice src="abbr"> > <abbr>tei-c</abbr> > <expan>Text Encoding Initiative Consortium</expan> > </choice> > > The TEI Council would like to enlist the assistance of > interested parties in helping them consider the issues > involved. Therefore, this is a call for volunteers to write > up a short working paper on the issues surrounding the use of > the new mechanism and of the previous attribute mechanism. > (Note that some have referred to the new mechanism as the > "choice" mechanism, but the name of the element used in the > examples above is not carved in stone, and is one issue the > authors of this working paper may wish to address.) > > Current thinking is that a first draft of the paper should be > ready by Sat 07 Aug, and the final version should be ready on > Thu 16 Sep. > > Interested volunteers should reply to editors(a)tei-c.org. > > > -- > Daniel Paul O'Donnell, PhD > Associate Professor of English > University of Lethbridge > Lethbridge AB T1K 3M4 > Tel. (403) 329-2377 > Fax. (403) 382-7191 > E-mail <daniel.odonnell(a)uleth.ca> > Home Page <http://people.uleth.ca/~daniel.odonnell/> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dm-l mailing list > dm-l(a)uleth.ca > http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l >

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Re: [dm-l] MS-Internet Explorer 6 and standards based computing
by Joris van.Zundert 28 Jun '04

28 Jun '04

>>in short, yes. MSIE is the regular target of complaints from the web >>standards community. I second that. >>perhaps the response among this group should be the converse of many >>web developers: develop standards-based texts and applications and >>require your users to use standards-based browsers. Succesfullness of a webtool/application is often decided by whether it's well usable in the most popular browser (which too bad still is IE). If it's not, users will blame the application, not the browser. So I wouldn't recommend not making your application IE compatible. One should do both: implement the standards and provide a IE compatible version as well. >>even if IE is parsing XSL better right now, other browsers, >>particularly mozilla-based browsers, are sure to catch up. Although I doubt whether IE parses better, I wonder why one wouldn't just parse server side and sending HTML? For those who want the very XML, a download button, FTP, or OAI solution may be provided. HTML is implemented fairly reliable over all browsers, is it? Or do I fail to see an important point for not parsing XML server side? grtz, Joris

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Re: Re: [dm-l] palaeography and computing
by Dorothy C. Porter 28 Jun '04

28 Jun '04

Arianna, -----Original Message----- From: Arianna Ciula <arianna.ciula(a)kcl.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 18:05:17 +0100 Subject: Re: [dm-l] palaeography and computing Hi Dorothy, thank-you for all the information. I was at the ALLC/ACh conference in Sweden and I had ettended your talk of course, which I enjoied a lot. D: Thank you! By the way, what I'm curious about it's exactly what you call "encoding paleographical descriptions using a simple template interface". D: Rather than entering markup into the text by hand (think NoteTab Pro), the editor uses a template to compare the letter to be described with other (example) letters and selects descriptive elements from drop-down menus - the markup is entered automatically (and you don't need to look at the tags if you don't want to). It's a very user-friendly approach. Dot Looking forward your publications, Best wishes, Arianna Ciula On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 11:52:40 -0400 "Dorothy C. Porter" <Dorothy.Porter(a)uky.edu> wrote: > Arianna, > > We (Research in Computing for Humanities at the University of Kentucky) are working on DTD and tool (called "DucType") for paleographical description. Briefly, it will enable to editor to view a manuscript image alongside a transcript, and encode paleographical descriptions using a simple template interface. It's still under development, although Kevin Kiernan, PI on the projects, has shown several demonstrations, including one at Kzoo in May. > > Look for our forthcoming article in Literary and Linguistic Computing (the proceedings from last year's ACH/ALLC meeting - July or August 2004). We also have a short article coming out in the July DigiCULT Newsletter [http://www.digicult.info/pages/index.php] that gives a bit of history and briefly describes DucType and our other editing tools. > > You can find out more on our project websites: > > Electronic Boethius - http://beowulf.engl.uky.edu/~kiernan/eBoethius/inlad.htm > ARCHway - http://beowulf.engl.uky.edu/~kiernan/ARCHway/entrance.htm > > Hope this helps, > > Dot > > Arianna Ciula wrote: > > >Dear all, > > > >as a Ph.D. student working on palaeography and computing, I find this > >mailing list very useful and I start my contribution with a question. > > > >Is there any sort of DTD designed with the purpose of describing a > >medieval manuscript, not just in its physical features as a global > >object, but in its palaeographical features? > > > >I mean any kind of XML grill and hierarchy able to encounter > >description and comments on the shape of letters, of ligatures and so > >on, even related just to one period and one handwritten style. > > > >I know the TEI guidelines and the efforts of some specific projects such > >as Digital Scriptorium, but none of them seems to me to go into the > >image with the granularity needed for a palaeographical analysis. > > > >Cheers, > > > >Arianna Ciula > > > >---------------------- > >Arianna Ciula > >arianna.ciula(a)kcl.ac.uk > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >dm-l mailing list > >dm-l(a)uleth.ca > >http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l > > > > > > -- > Daniel Paul O'Donnell, PhD > Associate Professor of English > University of Lethbridge > Lethbridge AB T1K 3M4 > Tel. (403) 329-2377 > Fax. (403) 382-7191 > E-mail <daniel.odonnell(a)uleth.ca> > Home Page <http://people.uleth.ca/~daniel.odonnell/> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > dm-l mailing list > dm-l(a)uleth.ca > http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l > > > *************************************** > Dorothy Carr Porter, Program Coordinator > Collaboratory for Research in Computing for Humanities > University of Kentucky > 351 William T. Young Library > Lexington, KY 40506 > > dporter(a)uky.edu 859-257-9549 > *************************************** > > _______________________________________________ > dm-l mailing list > dm-l(a)uleth.ca > http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l > ---------------------- Arianna Ciula arianna.ciula(a)kcl.ac.uk *************************************** Dorothy Carr Porter, Program Coordinator Collaboratory for Research in Computing for Humanities University of Kentucky 351 William T. Young Library Lexington, KY 40506 dporter(a)uky.edu 859-257-9549 ***************************************

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Re: [dm-l] palaeography and computing
by Dorothy C. Porter 28 Jun '04

28 Jun '04

Arianna, We (Research in Computing for Humanities at the University of Kentucky) are working on DTD and tool (called "DucType") for paleographical description. Briefly, it will enable to editor to view a manuscript image alongside a transcript, and encode paleographical descriptions using a simple template interface. It's still under development, although Kevin Kiernan, PI on the projects, has shown several demonstrations, including one at Kzoo in May. Look for our forthcoming article in Literary and Linguistic Computing (the proceedings from last year's ACH/ALLC meeting - July or August 2004). We also have a short article coming out in the July DigiCULT Newsletter [http://www.digicult.info/pages/index.php] that gives a bit of history and briefly describes DucType and our other editing tools. You can find out more on our project websites: Electronic Boethius - http://beowulf.engl.uky.edu/~kiernan/eBoethius/inlad.htm ARCHway - http://beowulf.engl.uky.edu/~kiernan/ARCHway/entrance.htm Hope this helps, Dot Arianna Ciula wrote: >Dear all, > >as a Ph.D. student working on palaeography and computing, I find this >mailing list very useful and I start my contribution with a question. > >Is there any sort of DTD designed with the purpose of describing a >medieval manuscript, not just in its physical features as a global >object, but in its palaeographical features? > >I mean any kind of XML grill and hierarchy able to encounter >description and comments on the shape of letters, of ligatures and so >on, even related just to one period and one handwritten style. > >I know the TEI guidelines and the efforts of some specific projects such >as Digital Scriptorium, but none of them seems to me to go into the >image with the granularity needed for a palaeographical analysis. > >Cheers, > >Arianna Ciula > >---------------------- >Arianna Ciula >arianna.ciula(a)kcl.ac.uk > > > >_______________________________________________ >dm-l mailing list >dm-l(a)uleth.ca >http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l > > -- Daniel Paul O'Donnell, PhD Associate Professor of English University of Lethbridge Lethbridge AB T1K 3M4 Tel. (403) 329-2377 Fax. (403) 382-7191 E-mail <daniel.odonnell(a)uleth.ca> Home Page <http://people.uleth.ca/~daniel.odonnell/> _______________________________________________ dm-l mailing list dm-l(a)uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/dm-l *************************************** Dorothy Carr Porter, Program Coordinator Collaboratory for Research in Computing for Humanities University of Kentucky 351 William T. Young Library Lexington, KY 40506 dporter(a)uky.edu 859-257-9549 ***************************************

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