Hola a todos:
He seguido esta conversación con sorpresa y ahora, con preocupación.
Me sorprende y preocupa que se le reste legitimidad a una convocatoria con algo que ninguna publicación de DH ha ofrecido hasta ahora: la traducción de los artículos al inglés por alguien distinto a su autor. Me preocupa mucho porque esta es una convocatoria que abre la puerta para que académicos como yo, con sede en América Latina, podamos acceder a una publicación de prestigio como Debates in the Digital Humanties, y además hacerlo en nuestro propio idioma y no sólo en inglés. La paradoja de que sea desde GO:DH, que en el pasado ha hecho un esfuerzo muy importante para la integración de la diversidad en las Humanidades Digitales, me impide entender con claridad cuál puede ser la intención. Además, coincido con Ernesto Priego, ¿por qué interpelar a los editores y no a la editorial?
En lo personal, me desalienta que se cuestione un CFP elaborado por compañeros que trabajan en la India, México e Italia. De verdad, ¿deben ser ellos, que trabajan fuera de Estados Unidos, quienes resuelvan el problema del monolingüismo de las ediciones anglófonas? Me parece que el CFP y los editores son el objetivo equivocado.
La solución debe provenir del entendimiento y respecto de la posición de los editores, quienes seguramente atenderán la preocupación que ha iniciado esta conversación en la medida de sus posibilidades.
Saludos
Ernesto Priani Saisó
p. d. Si alguno quiere ayudarme a traducir este correo al inglés, le estaré muy agradecido.
2017-08-11 10:23 GMT-05:00 Alex Gil colibri.alex@gmail.com:
Dear all,
Thank you for starting this conversation. I think this is the important thing, to leave the door open for solutions that can shift the burden away from the authors. As I said in my original email, I support this project and will volunteer my labor to help it succeed whenever I can be of use to the editors.
Ernesto, to answer your first question, yes, I think it is clear that this is a constraint imposed by the press. I took for granted we understood that. Although I see a small opportunity for success there in terms of absorbing the cost, I would not rule it out completely. I think the onus for a solution, though—if we really want to succeed—lies in the spectrum of influence from the general editors, to the special volume editors, to us, the community of folks interested in building intellectual bridges around our common concerns.
John, I think you misunderstood that the issue was the translations of the abstracts. Your solution would've made sense for some workflows. Alas, we're talking about the papers themselves.
Merci, Maran, for these models. I've been superficially looking at these possibilities since I'm in the middle of the conference with you.
Other possibilities that folks have contributed privately include: a) Approaching a translation school, and offer this as a project. b) Assigning someone to coordinate a crowdfunding or crowdsourcing effort, and give that person equal billing as a co-editor. c) Using the review period to crowdsource the translation using a new prototype for review/translation.
I do hope others will contribute to this conversation as a community to come up with a broad set of possible solutions that can help all of us in the mid-spectrum weigh the pros-and-cons. Perhaps in a timeline that would allow for a revision of the CFP.
Best, a.
On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 2:40 PM, John Unsworth unsworth@brandeis.edu wrote:
Hi folks,
Aren’t we at the point where much of the work of translation can be done by Microsoft or Google? Go here:
https://www.bing.com/translator
and paste in the URL for the Spanish-language call for papers:
http://dhdebates.gc.cuny.edu/cfps/cfp_2017_global_digital_hu manities_es.html
and see what you get. It’s not perfect, but the work of cleaning it up would be far, far less than the work of doing the translation from scratch.
Also, could someone change my subscription address for this list, from Unsworth@brandeis.edu to Unsworth@virginia.edu ?
Yours in left field,
John
*From: *globaloutlookdh-l globaloutlookdh-l-bounces@uleth.ca on behalf of Dan O'Donnell daniel.odonnell@uleth.ca *Reply-To: *A list for participants in the ADHO DH Global Outlook Community globaloutlookdh-l@uleth.ca *Date: *Thursday, August 10, 2017 at 8:16 AM *To: *"globaloutlookdh-l, MailList" globaloutlookdh-l@uleth.ca *Subject: *Re: [globaloutlookDH-l] CFP: Global Debates in the Digital Humanities
Something I've just joined recently that might provide something of a model--though it isn't itself about translation--is authoraid http://www.authoraid.info/en/
This is aimed at scientists and scientists have, as a whole, given up the debate, as far as I can see, so it is primarily about writing in English. But the crowdsourcing and community of practice aspect is something to pay attention to.
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*From:* globaloutlookdh-l globaloutlookdh-l-bounces@uleth.ca on behalf of Ernesto Priego efpriego@gmail.com *Sent:* August 9, 2017 14:02 *To:* globaloutlookdh-l, MailList *Subject:* Re: [globaloutlookDH-l] CFP: Global Debates in the Digital Humanities
I guess it's important to say too that "a lot of people" are already excluded, de facto, by contemporary scholarship. In DH and in all other fields. This volume of Global Debates would not be the first one to do so.
My understanding is that it is not this volume's responsibility to solve the problems of linguistic exclusion or dominance of the English language, but to address them in a language and format that will actually be read by those who participate in, suffer from and benefit from an academic culture that has privileged English for so long.
I agree it could, however, attempt excluding fewer colleagues by not expecting them to pay for their own translations. It would make sense given the topic and motivations. Yet the question remains whose responsibility would be to ensure this support exists, because it is also labor.
Dr Ernesto Priego
@ernestopriego https://epriego.wordpress.com/ http://www.comicsgrid.com/ Subscribe to the Comics Grid Newsletter: http://eepurl.com/iOYAj
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On 9 August 2017 at 20:52, Marin Dacos marin.dacos@openedition.org wrote:
Dear all,
We know that the cost of translation is high, and it is the reason why the project is not able to provide a translation service. This is the cost and the risk of bibliodiversity. We should try to find specific money for this task. Otherwise, we will exclude a lot of people.
In France, there is no translation fundings for open access publishing, whereas there are translation fundings for business publishing. I know only one example of success, publishing two versions of the same book, likely with proper fundings dedicated to the task : http://net-lang.net/lang_en
They provide the list of their funders :
http://www.maaya.org/?lang=en : Maaya — the World Network for
Linguistic Diversity
I do not know the details, and they should be asked to Hervé Le Crosnier (University of Caen) and founder of C&F Editions http://cfeditions.com/public/
There would be an alternative by trying to crowdsource the translation. But we need a task force for that and a strong involvment of a community. In France, again, we have a model for that : https://framablog.org/ They translate texts into French that the consider important for free culture, open source, and so on. They have a tremendous know how and they could provide feedback. But, again, they won't provide the people to do the translation, and their skills are to translate into French, not into English.
Best regards, Marin
Le 09/08/2017 à 13:57, Ernesto Priego a écrit :
Hi Alex,
I know you addressed the email to Domenico but I wanted to chip in if it's OK. I couldn't agree more this is the best, if not the only venue to have a discussion about this.
You raise a very important point which indeed as you say reflects structural conditions.
That said, I am concerned about one aspect of the CFP, mainly that the
cost of the translation into the "lingua franca" is displaced unto the writers.
I'd like to add some follow-up questions here if I may:
Could this restriction/condition (the onus of translation into English being on writers requiring it) have to do with
a) the publisher not providing this service as part of any publishing deal with the editors and/or
b) the publisher or editors not having (nrt means of achieving) funding that could be given to any submissions accepted that might require translation?
Do we know of any scholarly publishers or scholarly editions in the humanities or social sciences who have announced they will pay for translations into English of any submissions?
If funding could be provided to offer this service to authors who require it it would make this collection completely pioneering. Whose responsibility would it be to source that funding, do we already know of potential organisations who could provide that funding?
All the best,
Ernesto
Dr Ernesto Priego
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On 9 August 2017 at 16:28, Alex Gil colibri.alex@gmail.com wrote:
Dear Domenico,
I'm very happy that this project is moving forward. This is indeed a great opportunity to highlight projects in the periphery, and generate fantastic debates. I will help the team personally reach individuals around the world in our networks to make sure they share with their own networks to open opportunities for new and old voices.
That said, I am concerned about one aspect of the CFP, mainly that the cost of the translation into the "lingua franca" is displaced unto the writers. When we consider that some of the writers who would be excluded traditionally from publication are precisely the ones who are less likely to achieve translation, this becomes a fundamental structural problem. That problem is exacerbated by the fact that the CFP is trying to be critical of anglo-exclusion. We take with the left hand what we give with the right.
Perhaps we can discuss among ourselves and publicly in this venue what we can do to mitigate. I think this is the best venue (perhaps the only one) to have this conversation.
All best,
a.
On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 7:28 PM, Domenico Fiormonte < domenico.fiormonte@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear GO::DH friends,
we've just launched a call for contributions that we think it would be of particular interest for the Global DH community:
http://dhdebates.gc.cuny.edu/cfps/cfp_2017_global_digital_humanities.html
We would be very grateful if you could circulate it in your local/regional/linguistic community. Our aim with this project it is not only to make visible non-Anglophone or non-Western research, but to give a voice to alternative views of DH. I guess "DH Diversity" would have been a proper subtitle!
We look forward to receiving your inputs, comments, and advice. We're also lookinkg for volunteers who could help us to translate the call in other languages (i.e. Chinese, Arabic, and Russian).
Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any specific question regarding the call and the project as a whole.
All the best
Domenico, Paola, and Sukanta
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