Dear Alex and dear all:
as anyone on this list (and beyond this list) knows, I've been very critical of the ADHO model for the last six or seven years. I've made a number of proposals addressing institutional, cultural and linguistic issues (see in English: https://www.digitalstudies.org/articles/10.16995/dscn.274/), and in the next weeks I'll try to add my contributions to the "Leave" document.
So the first thing I'd like to say is that I support Alex and Roopika's move. What other friends and I had in mind as an istrument to overcome the ADHO's model was a Federative system, but, admittedly, this is not going to happen anytime soon. Alex and Roopika's proposals seem a good start insofar as it tries to return to a project-based community that goes beyond the classical model of accumulation of symbolic power (i.e. academic visibility, etc.).
Two of the weakest points of ADHO were (and are) in my opinion the lack of transparency and the an unequal representation system, mainly based on income. So I particularly liked this sentence: "guaranteed representation in the executive from agreed-upon, major regions of the planet."
While I second the "GO::DHexit", I would also like to add that at this point we need more information about the negotations between GO::DH and ADHO. In reading Alex and Roopika's document I couldn't help perceiving a sub-text of unspoken issues. It also worries me when Barbara says she didn't know about ADHO asking GO::DH to pay membership fees, because if she didn't know, then who knows?
All the best
Domenico
Hi again,
I echo Domenico's words.
(Just to clarify, *en lo que a mí respecta*, when I mentioned membership fees in a previous message I was asking if the 'independence' proposal would mean start charging fees as a different organisation -it has been clarified it will not. Maybe mistakenly I had assumed that as a ADHO SIG GO::DH was indirectly funded by ADHO's membership fees, or, to put it in a different but related way, that it was because we were members of ADHO that we had at least originally found out about GO::DH. I have also questioned the membership model of ADHO in the past, and therefore found it attractive that an autonomous group emerging from an ADHO SIG would not be based on the traditional membership fee business model).
Apologies for the intermission. Carry on...
Dr Ernesto Priego
@ernestopriego https://epriego.wordpress.com/ http://www.comicsgrid.com/ Subscribe to the Comics Grid Newsletter: http://eepurl.com/iOYAj
The information contained in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this e-mail. The contents of this e-mail must not be forwarded, disclosed or copied without the sender's consent. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of any related organisations, projects, colleagues or employers.
On 16 October 2017 at 18:01, Domenico Fiormonte < domenico.fiormonte@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Alex and dear all:
as anyone on this list (and beyond this list) knows, I've been very critical of the ADHO model for the last six or seven years. I've made a number of proposals addressing institutional, cultural and linguistic issues (see in English: https://www.digitalstudies. org/articles/10.16995/dscn.274/), and in the next weeks I'll try to add my contributions to the "Leave" document.
So the first thing I'd like to say is that I support Alex and Roopika's move. What other friends and I had in mind as an istrument to overcome the ADHO's model was a Federative system, but, admittedly, this is not going to happen anytime soon. Alex and Roopika's proposals seem a good start insofar as it tries to return to a project-based community that goes beyond the classical model of accumulation of symbolic power (i.e. academic visibility, etc.).
Two of the weakest points of ADHO were (and are) in my opinion the lack of transparency and the an unequal representation system, mainly based on income. So I particularly liked this sentence: "guaranteed representation in the executive from agreed-upon, major regions of the planet."
While I second the "GO::DHexit", I would also like to add that at this point we need more information about the negotations between GO::DH and ADHO. In reading Alex and Roopika's document I couldn't help perceiving a sub-text of unspoken issues. It also worries me when Barbara says she didn't know about ADHO asking GO::DH to pay membership fees, because if she didn't know, then who knows?
All the best
Domenico
globaloutlookdh-l mailing list globaloutlookdh-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/globaloutlookdh-l
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I have not heard about any membership fees being asked for GO::DH if it becomes a CO. I'm sorry if my grammar suggested it was an either or. All I can say is that in our model, GO::DH would never charge fees. Why would we when we ask folks to join us in working?
I have never been part of the negotiations though, so I can let those that have speak. Here's hoping we get word from that crew soon.
a.
On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 1:13 PM, Ernesto Priego efpriego@gmail.com wrote:
Hi again,
I echo Domenico's words.
(Just to clarify, *en lo que a mí respecta*, when I mentioned membership fees in a previous message I was asking if the 'independence' proposal would mean start charging fees as a different organisation -it has been clarified it will not. Maybe mistakenly I had assumed that as a ADHO SIG GO::DH was indirectly funded by ADHO's membership fees, or, to put it in a different but related way, that it was because we were members of ADHO that we had at least originally found out about GO::DH. I have also questioned the membership model of ADHO in the past, and therefore found it attractive that an autonomous group emerging from an ADHO SIG would not be based on the traditional membership fee business model).
Apologies for the intermission. Carry on...
Dr Ernesto Priego
@ernestopriego https://epriego.wordpress.com/ http://www.comicsgrid.com/ Subscribe to the Comics Grid Newsletter: http://eepurl.com/iOYAj
The information contained in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this e-mail. The contents of this e-mail must not be forwarded, disclosed or copied without the sender's consent. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of any related organisations, projects, colleagues or employers.
On 16 October 2017 at 18:01, Domenico Fiormonte < domenico.fiormonte@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Alex and dear all:
as anyone on this list (and beyond this list) knows, I've been very critical of the ADHO model for the last six or seven years. I've made a number of proposals addressing institutional, cultural and linguistic issues (see in English: https://www.digitalstudies.org /articles/10.16995/dscn.274/), and in the next weeks I'll try to add my contributions to the "Leave" document.
So the first thing I'd like to say is that I support Alex and Roopika's move. What other friends and I had in mind as an istrument to overcome the ADHO's model was a Federative system, but, admittedly, this is not going to happen anytime soon. Alex and Roopika's proposals seem a good start insofar as it tries to return to a project-based community that goes beyond the classical model of accumulation of symbolic power (i.e. academic visibility, etc.).
Two of the weakest points of ADHO were (and are) in my opinion the lack of transparency and the an unequal representation system, mainly based on income. So I particularly liked this sentence: "guaranteed representation in the executive from agreed-upon, major regions of the planet."
While I second the "GO::DHexit", I would also like to add that at this point we need more information about the negotations between GO::DH and ADHO. In reading Alex and Roopika's document I couldn't help perceiving a sub-text of unspoken issues. It also worries me when Barbara says she didn't know about ADHO asking GO::DH to pay membership fees, because if she didn't know, then who knows?
All the best
Domenico
globaloutlookdh-l mailing list globaloutlookdh-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/globaloutlookdh-l
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Dear All
A couple of points of clarification, if I may, writing as Chair of ADHO’s Admissions Committee - and, from the outset, an enthusiastic supporter and member of GO::DH.
It is true that all the current organisations that are members of ADHO charge membership fees, in common with most scholarly - or other kinds of - associations. The support which ADHO is able to provide for the community depends on income, including of course measures to support young scholars such as bursaries and prizes, support for the development of DH communities in many parts of the world, and so on. The basis of ADHO’s finances has changed quite considerably over the past 12 years of its existence, and is set to change again in the next year. A strategy review was undertaken a couple of years ago, and quite fundamental changes to membership, governance and finances were agreed in principle during the Kraków conference last year. During this year’s conference in Montréal, an ‘Implementation Committee’ was established, chaired by Geoffrey Rockwell, with the remit to propose detailed recommendations on how best to put these changes into practice, for final decision at next year’s conference in Mexico City.
Of immediate relevance to this discussion, the proposals are likely to open the door to the admission of Consittuent Organisations (CO) that decide for whatever reason that they do not wish to charge membership fees. Over the past two years I have had some brief discussions and exchanges with Dan, Roopika and Alex about changing the status of GO::DH from SIG to CO, and my working assumption has always been that GO::DH would not wish to charge membership fees. So at this stage, my best guess is that the question of a membership fee will not be relevant to the interesting discussion about whether GO::DH should remain within the ADHO family or should move away.
The final decisions about the changes in ADHO’s governance and finance that will be made in Mexico City are not mine to make, of course. The Implementation Committee is getting under way, and will be using the website http://change.adho.org both to publish its current ideas, and also to welcome input from whoever is interested to provide it. That website has a link to information about the strategic review and the discussions and decisions in principle up to this point.
Best wishes Harold
On 16 Oct 2017, at 18:24, Alex Gil <colibri.alex@gmail.commailto:colibri.alex@gmail.com> wrote:
I have not heard about any membership fees being asked for GO::DH if it becomes a CO. I'm sorry if my grammar suggested it was an either or. All I can say is that in our model, GO::DH would never charge fees. Why would we when we ask folks to join us in working?
I have never been part of the negotiations though, so I can let those that have speak. Here's hoping we get word from that crew soon.
a.
On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 1:13 PM, Ernesto Priego <efpriego@gmail.commailto:efpriego@gmail.com> wrote: Hi again,
I echo Domenico's words.
(Just to clarify, en lo que a mí respecta, when I mentioned membership fees in a previous message I was asking if the 'independence' proposal would mean start charging fees as a different organisation -it has been clarified it will not. Maybe mistakenly I had assumed that as a ADHO SIG GO::DH was indirectly funded by ADHO's membership fees, or, to put it in a different but related way, that it was because we were members of ADHO that we had at least originally found out about GO::DH. I have also questioned the membership model of ADHO in the past, and therefore found it attractive that an autonomous group emerging from an ADHO SIG would not be based on the traditional membership fee business model).
Apologies for the intermission. Carry on...
Dr Ernesto Priego
@ernestopriego https://epriego.wordpress.com/https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fepriego.wordpress.com%2F&data=01%7C01%7Charold.short%40kcl.ac.uk%7C312d8f6f95f44fcb28e908d514bae7ec%7C8370cf1416f34c16b83c724071654356%7C0&sdata=ZfQXtgknFxzRZ%2FkFQvh%2Fk1J6hwU2bsVPyzimyA2tlJY%3D&reserved=0 http://www.comicsgrid.com/https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.comicsgrid.com%2F&data=01%7C01%7Charold.short%40kcl.ac.uk%7C312d8f6f95f44fcb28e908d514bae7ec%7C8370cf1416f34c16b83c724071654356%7C0&sdata=rD60H2PM7HBMlpjXaqg2bwjXvgS%2BNBK%2FgaSMIEiTe2Y%3D&reserved=0 Subscribe to the Comics Grid Newsletter: http://eepurl.com/iOYAjhttps://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Feepurl.com%2FiOYAj&data=01%7C01%7Charold.short%40kcl.ac.uk%7C312d8f6f95f44fcb28e908d514bae7ec%7C8370cf1416f34c16b83c724071654356%7C0&sdata=OX95iCdSM9ShO2ibukYy2gkPz4b%2FvN9rav1BXTcObLU%3D&reserved=0
The information contained in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this e-mail. The contents of this e-mail must not be forwarded, disclosed or copied without the sender's consent. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of any related organisations, projects, colleagues or employers.
On 16 October 2017 at 18:01, Domenico Fiormonte <domenico.fiormonte@gmail.commailto:domenico.fiormonte@gmail.com> wrote: Dear Alex and dear all:
as anyone on this list (and beyond this list) knows, I've been very critical of the ADHO model for the last six or seven years. I've made a number of proposals addressing institutional, cultural and linguistic issues (see in English: https://www.digitalstudies.org/articles/10.16995/dscn.274/https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.digitalstudies.org%2Farticles%2F10.16995%2Fdscn.274%2F&data=01%7C01%7Charold.short%40kcl.ac.uk%7C312d8f6f95f44fcb28e908d514bae7ec%7C8370cf1416f34c16b83c724071654356%7C0&sdata=U42fVrZYi%2FJs182w%2BSYmYtsfSTuMvZ4DAIqtZhlTG%2Bk%3D&reserved=0), and in the next weeks I'll try to add my contributions to the "Leave" document.
So the first thing I'd like to say is that I support Alex and Roopika's move. What other friends and I had in mind as an istrument to overcome the ADHO's model was a Federative system, but, admittedly, this is not going to happen anytime soon. Alex and Roopika's proposals seem a good start insofar as it tries to return to a project-based community that goes beyond the classical model of accumulation of symbolic power (i.e. academic visibility, etc.).
Two of the weakest points of ADHO were (and are) in my opinion the lack of transparency and the an unequal representation system, mainly based on income. So I particularly liked this sentence: "guaranteed representation in the executive from agreed-upon, major regions of the planet."
While I second the "GO::DHexit", I would also like to add that at this point we need more information about the negotations between GO::DH and ADHO. In reading Alex and Roopika's document I couldn't help perceiving a sub-text of unspoken issues. It also worries me when Barbara says she didn't know about ADHO asking GO::DH to pay membership fees, because if she didn't know, then who knows?
All the best
Domenico
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Thanks Harold (and everybody else)!
Looks like we were writing to the list at the same time. I think we are in similar territory, however. I think the proposal would be what we make of it, and then we could see if it worked. I've certainly never seen anything but enthusiasm for having us, however!
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________________________________ From: globaloutlookdh-l globaloutlookdh-l-bounces@uleth.ca on behalf of Short, Harold harold.short@kcl.ac.uk Sent: October 16, 2017 13:53 To: globaloutlookdh-l, MailList Subject: Re: [globaloutlookDH-l] Why we should leave ADHO, go minimal and return to the planet.
Dear All
A couple of points of clarification, if I may, writing as Chair of ADHO’s Admissions Committee - and, from the outset, an enthusiastic supporter and member of GO::DH.
It is true that all the current organisations that are members of ADHO charge membership fees, in common with most scholarly - or other kinds of - associations. The support which ADHO is able to provide for the community depends on income, including of course measures to support young scholars such as bursaries and prizes, support for the development of DH communities in many parts of the world, and so on. The basis of ADHO’s finances has changed quite considerably over the past 12 years of its existence, and is set to change again in the next year. A strategy review was undertaken a couple of years ago, and quite fundamental changes to membership, governance and finances were agreed in principle during the Kraków conference last year. During this year’s conference in Montréal, an ‘Implementation Committee’ was established, chaired by Geoffrey Rockwell, with the remit to propose detailed recommendations on how best to put these changes into practice, for final decision at next year’s conference in Mexico City.
Of immediate relevance to this discussion, the proposals are likely to open the door to the admission of Consittuent Organisations (CO) that decide for whatever reason that they do not wish to charge membership fees. Over the past two years I have had some brief discussions and exchanges with Dan, Roopika and Alex about changing the status of GO::DH from SIG to CO, and my working assumption has always been that GO::DH would not wish to charge membership fees. So at this stage, my best guess is that the question of a membership fee will not be relevant to the interesting discussion about whether GO::DH should remain within the ADHO family or should move away.
The final decisions about the changes in ADHO’s governance and finance that will be made in Mexico City are not mine to make, of course. The Implementation Committee is getting under way, and will be using the website http://change.adho.org both to publish its current ideas, and also to welcome input from whoever is interested to provide it. That website has a link to information about the strategic review and the discussions and decisions in principle up to this point.
Best wishes Harold
On 16 Oct 2017, at 18:24, Alex Gil <colibri.alex@gmail.commailto:colibri.alex@gmail.com> wrote:
I have not heard about any membership fees being asked for GO::DH if it becomes a CO. I'm sorry if my grammar suggested it was an either or. All I can say is that in our model, GO::DH would never charge fees. Why would we when we ask folks to join us in working?
I have never been part of the negotiations though, so I can let those that have speak. Here's hoping we get word from that crew soon.
a.
On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 1:13 PM, Ernesto Priego <efpriego@gmail.commailto:efpriego@gmail.com> wrote: Hi again,
I echo Domenico's words.
(Just to clarify, en lo que a mí respecta, when I mentioned membership fees in a previous message I was asking if the 'independence' proposal would mean start charging fees as a different organisation -it has been clarified it will not. Maybe mistakenly I had assumed that as a ADHO SIG GO::DH was indirectly funded by ADHO's membership fees, or, to put it in a different but related way, that it was because we were members of ADHO that we had at least originally found out about GO::DH. I have also questioned the membership model of ADHO in the past, and therefore found it attractive that an autonomous group emerging from an ADHO SIG would not be based on the traditional membership fee business model).
Apologies for the intermission. Carry on...
Dr Ernesto Priego
@ernestopriego https://epriego.wordpress.com/https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fepriego.wordpress.com%2F&data=01%7C01%7Charold.short%40kcl.ac.uk%7C312d8f6f95f44fcb28e908d514bae7ec%7C8370cf1416f34c16b83c724071654356%7C0&sdata=ZfQXtgknFxzRZ%2FkFQvh%2Fk1J6hwU2bsVPyzimyA2tlJY%3D&reserved=0 http://www.comicsgrid.com/https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.comicsgrid.com%2F&data=01%7C01%7Charold.short%40kcl.ac.uk%7C312d8f6f95f44fcb28e908d514bae7ec%7C8370cf1416f34c16b83c724071654356%7C0&sdata=rD60H2PM7HBMlpjXaqg2bwjXvgS%2BNBK%2FgaSMIEiTe2Y%3D&reserved=0 Subscribe to the Comics Grid Newsletter: http://eepurl.com/iOYAjhttps://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Feepurl.com%2FiOYAj&data=01%7C01%7Charold.short%40kcl.ac.uk%7C312d8f6f95f44fcb28e908d514bae7ec%7C8370cf1416f34c16b83c724071654356%7C0&sdata=OX95iCdSM9ShO2ibukYy2gkPz4b%2FvN9rav1BXTcObLU%3D&reserved=0
The information contained in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this e-mail. The contents of this e-mail must not be forwarded, disclosed or copied without the sender's consent. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of any related organisations, projects, colleagues or employers.
On 16 October 2017 at 18:01, Domenico Fiormonte <domenico.fiormonte@gmail.commailto:domenico.fiormonte@gmail.com> wrote: Dear Alex and dear all:
as anyone on this list (and beyond this list) knows, I've been very critical of the ADHO model for the last six or seven years. I've made a number of proposals addressing institutional, cultural and linguistic issues (see in English: https://www.digitalstudies.org/articles/10.16995/dscn.274/https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.digitalstudies.org%2Farticles%2F10.16995%2Fdscn.274%2F&data=01%7C01%7Charold.short%40kcl.ac.uk%7C312d8f6f95f44fcb28e908d514bae7ec%7C8370cf1416f34c16b83c724071654356%7C0&sdata=U42fVrZYi%2FJs182w%2BSYmYtsfSTuMvZ4DAIqtZhlTG%2Bk%3D&reserved=0), and in the next weeks I'll try to add my contributions to the "Leave" document.
So the first thing I'd like to say is that I support Alex and Roopika's move. What other friends and I had in mind as an istrument to overcome the ADHO's model was a Federative system, but, admittedly, this is not going to happen anytime soon. Alex and Roopika's proposals seem a good start insofar as it tries to return to a project-based community that goes beyond the classical model of accumulation of symbolic power (i.e. academic visibility, etc.).
Two of the weakest points of ADHO were (and are) in my opinion the lack of transparency and the an unequal representation system, mainly based on income. So I particularly liked this sentence: "guaranteed representation in the executive from agreed-upon, major regions of the planet."
While I second the "GO::DHexit", I would also like to add that at this point we need more information about the negotations between GO::DH and ADHO. In reading Alex and Roopika's document I couldn't help perceiving a sub-text of unspoken issues. It also worries me when Barbara says she didn't know about ADHO asking GO::DH to pay membership fees, because if she didn't know, then who knows?
All the best
Domenico
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Queridos todos,
Me alegro por la propuesta de Alex y Roopika, y en especial el diagnóstico del que parte, con el que coincido. GO:DH fue un instrumento muy importante para el desarrollo inicial de las Humanidades Digitales en México y en América Latina porque había puesto su mirada en hacer visible a la comunidad de DH de la existencia de unas DH fuera del ámbito Norteamericano/Europeo. Luego, poco a poco, ese impuso inicial se perdió a favor de otros objetivos y al menos, desde mi punto de vista, GO:DH dejó de ser significativo para el desarrollo de Humanidades Digitales en nuestros países, para convertirse en una conversación interesante, pero sin relevancia local. De modo que esta nueva aproximación, que reorienta los objetivos de GO:DH me parece una oportunidad para retomar esa mirada, impulsar proyectos comunes que hagan visible los esfuerzos de esas "humanidades digitales perdidas" y articulen un horizonte más amplio para las HD. Me parece importante que se multipliquen las organizaciones de Humanidades Digitales en las cuales puedan hacerse conversaciones distintas a las que pasan por ADHO y puedan tener formas de representación distintas.
e
2017-10-16 15:00 GMT-05:00 O'Donnell, Dan daniel.odonnell@uleth.ca:
Thanks Harold (and everybody else)!
Looks like we were writing to the list at the same time. I think we are in similar territory, however. I think the proposal would be what we make of it, and then we could see if it worked. I've certainly never seen anything but enthusiasm for having us, however!
[image: U of Lethbridge Logo]
Daniel Paul O'Donnell
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Tel. +1 (403) 329-2377
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@danielPaulOD
*From:* globaloutlookdh-l globaloutlookdh-l-bounces@uleth.ca on behalf of Short, Harold harold.short@kcl.ac.uk *Sent:* October 16, 2017 13:53 *To:* globaloutlookdh-l, MailList *Subject:* Re: [globaloutlookDH-l] Why we should leave ADHO, go minimal and return to the planet.
Dear All
A couple of points of clarification, if I may, writing as Chair of ADHO’s Admissions Committee - and, from the outset, an enthusiastic supporter and member of GO::DH.
It is true that all the current organisations that are members of ADHO charge membership fees, in common with most scholarly - or other kinds of - associations. The support which ADHO is able to provide for the community depends on income, including of course measures to support young scholars such as bursaries and prizes, support for the development of DH communities in many parts of the world, and so on. The basis of ADHO’s finances has changed quite considerably over the past 12 years of its existence, and is set to change again in the next year. A strategy review was undertaken a couple of years ago, and quite fundamental changes to membership, governance and finances were agreed in principle during the Kraków conference last year. During this year’s conference in Montréal, an ‘Implementation Committee’ was established, chaired by Geoffrey Rockwell, with the remit to propose detailed recommendations on how best to put these changes into practice, for final decision at next year’s conference in Mexico City.
Of immediate relevance to this discussion, the proposals are likely to open the door to the admission of Consittuent Organisations (CO) that decide for whatever reason that they do not wish to charge membership fees. Over the past two years I have had some brief discussions and exchanges with Dan, Roopika and Alex about changing the status of GO::DH from SIG to CO, and my working assumption has always been that GO::DH would not wish to charge membership fees. So at this stage, my best guess is that the question of a membership fee will not be relevant to the interesting discussion about whether GO::DH should remain within the ADHO family or should move away.
The final decisions about the changes in ADHO’s governance and finance that will be made in Mexico City are not mine to make, of course. The Implementation Committee is getting under way, and will be using the website http://change.adho.org both to publish its current ideas, and also to welcome input from whoever is interested to provide it. That website has a link to information about the strategic review and the discussions and decisions in principle up to this point.
Best wishes Harold
On 16 Oct 2017, at 18:24, Alex Gil colibri.alex@gmail.com wrote:
I have not heard about any membership fees being asked for GO::DH if it becomes a CO. I'm sorry if my grammar suggested it was an either or. All I can say is that in our model, GO::DH would never charge fees. Why would we when we ask folks to join us in working?
I have never been part of the negotiations though, so I can let those that have speak. Here's hoping we get word from that crew soon.
a.
On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 1:13 PM, Ernesto Priego efpriego@gmail.com wr ote:
Hi again,
I echo Domenico's words.
(Just to clarify, *en lo que a mí respecta*, when I mentioned membership fees in a previous message I was asking if the 'independence' proposal would mean start charging fees as a different organisation -it has been clarified it will not. Maybe mistakenly I had assumed that as a ADHO SIG GO::DH was indirectly funded by ADHO's membership fees, or, to put it in a different but related way, that it was because we were members of ADHO that we had at least originally found out about GO::DH. I have also questioned the membership model of ADHO in the past, and therefore found it attractive that an autonomous group emerging from an ADHO SIG would not be based on the traditional membership fee business model).
Apologies for the intermission. Carry on...
Dr Ernesto Priego
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On 16 October 2017 at 18:01, Domenico Fiormonte <domenico.fiormonte@ gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Alex and dear all:
as anyone on this list (and beyond this list) knows, I've been very critical of the ADHO model for the last six or seven years. I've made a number of proposals addressing institutional, cultural and linguistic issues (see in English: https://www.digitalstudies.org/articles/ 10.16995/dscn.274/ https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.digitalstudies.org%2Farticles%2F10.16995%2Fdscn.274%2F&data=01%7C01%7Charold.short%40kcl.ac.uk%7C312d8f6f95f44fcb28e908d514bae7ec%7C8370cf1416f34c16b83c724071654356%7C0&sdata=U42fVrZYi%2FJs182w%2BSYmYtsfSTuMvZ4DAIqtZhlTG%2Bk%3D&reserved=0), and in the next weeks I'll try to add my contributions to the "Leave" document.
So the first thing I'd like to say is that I support Alex and Roopika's move. What other friends and I had in mind as an istrument to overcome the ADHO's model was a Federative system, but, admittedly, this is not going to happen anytime soon. Alex and Roopika's proposals seem a good start insofar as it tries to return to a project-based community that goes beyond the classical model of accumulation of symbolic power (i.e. academic visibility, etc.).
Two of the weakest points of ADHO were (and are) in my opinion the lack of transparency and the an unequal representation system, mainly based on income. So I particularly liked this sentence: "guaranteed representation in the executive from agreed-upon, major regions of the planet."
While I second the "GO::DHexit", I would also like to add that at this point we need more information about the negotations between GO::DH and ADHO. In reading Alex and Roopika's document I couldn't help perceiving a sub-text of unspoken issues. It also worries me when Barbara says she didn't know about ADHO asking GO::DH to pay membership fees, because if she didn't know, then who knows?
All the best
Domenico
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This really is the other argument, I think.
I personally can see both sides. I think it is worth seeing what might be available, but I can certainly see the argument that it is incompatible with one understanding of what we are up to.
[U of Lethbridge Logo]
Daniel Paul O'Donnell
Professor of English and Associate Member of the University Library Academic Staff
Editor, Digital Studies/Le champ numhttp://digitalstudies.org/érique http://digitalstudies.org/
Vice President, Force 11http://force11.org
Department of English and University Library
University of Lethbridge
4401 University Drive West
Lethbridge AB T1K 3M4
Canada
Tel. +1 (403) 329-2377
http://people.uleth.ca/~daniel.odonnell
@danielPaulOD
________________________________ From: globaloutlookdh-l globaloutlookdh-l-bounces@uleth.ca on behalf of Ernesto Priani epriani@gmail.com Sent: October 16, 2017 16:47 To: globaloutlookdh-l, MailList Subject: Re: [globaloutlookDH-l] Why we should leave ADHO, go minimal and return to the planet.
Queridos todos,
Me alegro por la propuesta de Alex y Roopika, y en especial el diagnóstico del que parte, con el que coincido. GO:DH fue un instrumento muy importante para el desarrollo inicial de las Humanidades Digitales en México y en América Latina porque había puesto su mirada en hacer visible a la comunidad de DH de la existencia de unas DH fuera del ámbito Norteamericano/Europeo. Luego, poco a poco, ese impuso inicial se perdió a favor de otros objetivos y al menos, desde mi punto de vista, GO:DH dejó de ser significativo para el desarrollo de Humanidades Digitales en nuestros países, para convertirse en una conversación interesante, pero sin relevancia local. De modo que esta nueva aproximación, que reorienta los objetivos de GO:DH me parece una oportunidad para retomar esa mirada, impulsar proyectos comunes que hagan visible los esfuerzos de esas "humanidades digitales perdidas" y articulen un horizonte más amplio para las HD. Me parece importante que se multipliquen las organizaciones de Humanidades Digitales en las cuales puedan hacerse conversaciones distintas a las que pasan por ADHO y puedan tener formas de representación distintas.
e
2017-10-16 15:00 GMT-05:00 O'Donnell, Dan <daniel.odonnell@uleth.camailto:daniel.odonnell@uleth.ca>:
Thanks Harold (and everybody else)!
Looks like we were writing to the list at the same time. I think we are in similar territory, however. I think the proposal would be what we make of it, and then we could see if it worked. I've certainly never seen anything but enthusiasm for having us, however!
[U of Lethbridge Logo]
Daniel Paul O'Donnell
Professor of English and Associate Member of the University Library Academic Staff
Editor, Digital Studies/Le champ numhttp://digitalstudies.org/érique http://digitalstudies.org/
Vice President, Force 11http://force11.org
Department of English and University Library
University of Lethbridge
4401 University Drive West
Lethbridge AB T1K 3M4
Canada
Tel. +1 (403) 329-2377
http://people.uleth.ca/~daniel.odonnell
@danielPaulOD
________________________________ From: globaloutlookdh-l <globaloutlookdh-l-bounces@uleth.camailto:globaloutlookdh-l-bounces@uleth.ca> on behalf of Short, Harold <harold.short@kcl.ac.ukmailto:harold.short@kcl.ac.uk> Sent: October 16, 2017 13:53 To: globaloutlookdh-l, MailList Subject: Re: [globaloutlookDH-l] Why we should leave ADHO, go minimal and return to the planet.
Dear All
A couple of points of clarification, if I may, writing as Chair of ADHO’s Admissions Committee - and, from the outset, an enthusiastic supporter and member of GO::DH.
It is true that all the current organisations that are members of ADHO charge membership fees, in common with most scholarly - or other kinds of - associations. The support which ADHO is able to provide for the community depends on income, including of course measures to support young scholars such as bursaries and prizes, support for the development of DH communities in many parts of the world, and so on. The basis of ADHO’s finances has changed quite considerably over the past 12 years of its existence, and is set to change again in the next year. A strategy review was undertaken a couple of years ago, and quite fundamental changes to membership, governance and finances were agreed in principle during the Kraków conference last year. During this year’s conference in Montréal, an ‘Implementation Committee’ was established, chaired by Geoffrey Rockwell, with the remit to propose detailed recommendations on how best to put these changes into practice, for final decision at next year’s conference in Mexico City.
Of immediate relevance to this discussion, the proposals are likely to open the door to the admission of Consittuent Organisations (CO) that decide for whatever reason that they do not wish to charge membership fees. Over the past two years I have had some brief discussions and exchanges with Dan, Roopika and Alex about changing the status of GO::DH from SIG to CO, and my working assumption has always been that GO::DH would not wish to charge membership fees. So at this stage, my best guess is that the question of a membership fee will not be relevant to the interesting discussion about whether GO::DH should remain within the ADHO family or should move away.
The final decisions about the changes in ADHO’s governance and finance that will be made in Mexico City are not mine to make, of course. The Implementation Committee is getting under way, and will be using the website http://change.adho.org both to publish its current ideas, and also to welcome input from whoever is interested to provide it. That website has a link to information about the strategic review and the discussions and decisions in principle up to this point.
Best wishes Harold
On 16 Oct 2017, at 18:24, Alex Gil <colibri.alex@gmail.commailto:colibri.alex@gmail.com> wrote:
I have not heard about any membership fees being asked for GO::DH if it becomes a CO. I'm sorry if my grammar suggested it was an either or. All I can say is that in our model, GO::DH would never charge fees. Why would we when we ask folks to join us in working?
I have never been part of the negotiations though, so I can let those that have speak. Here's hoping we get word from that crew soon.
a.
On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 1:13 PM, Ernesto Priego <efpriego@gmail.commailto:efpriego@gmail.com> wrote: Hi again,
I echo Domenico's words.
(Just to clarify, en lo que a mí respecta, when I mentioned membership fees in a previous message I was asking if the 'independence' proposal would mean start charging fees as a different organisation -it has been clarified it will not. Maybe mistakenly I had assumed that as a ADHO SIG GO::DH was indirectly funded by ADHO's membership fees, or, to put it in a different but related way, that it was because we were members of ADHO that we had at least originally found out about GO::DH. I have also questioned the membership model of ADHO in the past, and therefore found it attractive that an autonomous group emerging from an ADHO SIG would not be based on the traditional membership fee business model).
Apologies for the intermission. Carry on...
Dr Ernesto Priego
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On 16 October 2017 at 18:01, Domenico Fiormonte <domenico.fiormonte@gmail.commailto:domenico.fiormonte@gmail.com> wrote: Dear Alex and dear all:
as anyone on this list (and beyond this list) knows, I've been very critical of the ADHO model for the last six or seven years. I've made a number of proposals addressing institutional, cultural and linguistic issues (see in English: https://www.digitalstudies.org/articles/10.16995/dscn.274/https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.digitalstudies.org%2Farticles%2F10.16995%2Fdscn.274%2F&data=01%7C01%7Charold.short%40kcl.ac.uk%7C312d8f6f95f44fcb28e908d514bae7ec%7C8370cf1416f34c16b83c724071654356%7C0&sdata=U42fVrZYi%2FJs182w%2BSYmYtsfSTuMvZ4DAIqtZhlTG%2Bk%3D&reserved=0), and in the next weeks I'll try to add my contributions to the "Leave" document.
So the first thing I'd like to say is that I support Alex and Roopika's move. What other friends and I had in mind as an istrument to overcome the ADHO's model was a Federative system, but, admittedly, this is not going to happen anytime soon. Alex and Roopika's proposals seem a good start insofar as it tries to return to a project-based community that goes beyond the classical model of accumulation of symbolic power (i.e. academic visibility, etc.).
Two of the weakest points of ADHO were (and are) in my opinion the lack of transparency and the an unequal representation system, mainly based on income. So I particularly liked this sentence: "guaranteed representation in the executive from agreed-upon, major regions of the planet."
While I second the "GO::DHexit", I would also like to add that at this point we need more information about the negotations between GO::DH and ADHO. In reading Alex and Roopika's document I couldn't help perceiving a sub-text of unspoken issues. It also worries me when Barbara says she didn't know about ADHO asking GO::DH to pay membership fees, because if she didn't know, then who knows?
All the best
Domenico
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-- Escucha mi podcast Ráfagas de pensamiento http://ernestopriani.podbean.com/
Dr. Ernesto Priani Saisó www.ernestopriani.comhttp://www.ernestopriani.com Facultad de Filosofía y Letras, Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México Circuito interior, Ciudad Universitaria, S/N C.P. 04510 México, D.F. México
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Alex Gil -
Domenico Fiormonte -
Ernesto Priani -
Ernesto Priego -
O'Donnell, Dan -
Short, Harold