I guess people on this list would be interested in reading this post by Frédéric Clavert:
http://www.clavert.net/the-digital-humanities-multicultural-revolution-did-n...
Dear GO
I find the post curious Domenico, but the DH is just a small part of the world, it isn't the world. The post is reductive and build on some monumental and flimsy quantitative generalisations. What's wrong with down-loading a text, marking it up, playing around with it and posting it for others to have a look at?. There is no action in the post and the ideas in it could be broken down into a few blocks of quality time where some excellent work could be produced. The DH is about technology and if there are barriers to applying technology in all sorts of social or cultural contents then there are some really nice people who could be asked for assistance.
If Frederic is ever in Melbourne I'll take him out for a beer.
Kind regards,
Craig
On 27/04/2013 11:04 PM, Domenico Fiormonte wrote:
I guess people on this list would be interested in reading this post by Frédéric Clavert:
http://www.clavert.net/the-digital-humanities-multicultural-revolution-did-n...
globaloutlookdh-l mailing list globaloutlookdh-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/globaloutlookdh-l
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Let us begin it. Que comience!
On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 10:53 PM, Craig Bellamy txt@craigbellamy.netwrote:
Dear GO
I find the post curious Domenico, but the DH is just a small part of the world, it isn't the world. The post is reductive and build on some monumental and flimsy quantitative generalisations. What's wrong with down-loading a text, marking it up, playing around with it and posting it for others to have a look at?. There is no action in the post and the ideas in it could be broken down into a few blocks of quality time where some excellent work could be produced. The DH is about technology and if there are barriers to applying technology in all sorts of social or cultural contents then there are some really nice people who could be asked for assistance.
If Frederic is ever in Melbourne I'll take him out for a beer.
Kind regards,
Craig
On 27/04/2013 11:04 PM, Domenico Fiormonte wrote:
I guess people on this list would be interested in reading this post by Frédéric Clavert:
http://www.clavert.net/the-**digital-humanities-** multicultural-revolution-did-**not-happen-yet/http://www.clavert.net/the-digital-humanities-multicultural-revolution-did-not-happen-yet/
______________________________**_________________ globaloutlookdh-l mailing list globaloutlookdh-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/**mailman/listinfo/**globaloutlookdh-lhttp://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/globaloutlookdh-l
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-- Dr Craig Bellamy Research Fellow ___________________________ Computing and Information Systems The University of Melbourne Parkville, Melbourne, Australia ___________________________ w: craigbellamy.net
-- Dr Craig Bellamy Research Fellow ___________________________ Computing and Information Systems The University of Melbourne Parkville, Melbourne, Australia ___________________________ w: craigbellamy.net
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Dear all,
I'm new to the list - I knew I should have been member of it for a while - and my first message will be an answer to an answer to a post of mine.
Yes, my quantitative examples are flimsy. But my post is not based on them. It's just an illustration to a feeling which is: there are many non-english speaking DH projects that are somewhere on a hidden continent, because they're not in English. And it would be great to bring them a bit of light.
As for as action is concerned, I already participated to several THATCamp Organisation committees (Paris (twice), Florence, Luxembourg-Trier) and organised two conferences on history and the digital era in Luxembourg (and the third is on its way). I also have to deal with a team of enginers, documentalists and one historian (myself) that work on the present and future of a multilingual digital library (http://www.cvce.eu).
Beyond that, I never refuse a beer.
best, Frédéric
2013/4/28 Alex Gil colibri.alex@gmail.com:
Let us begin it. Que comience!
On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 10:53 PM, Craig Bellamy txt@craigbellamy.net wrote:
Dear GO
I find the post curious Domenico, but the DH is just a small part of the world, it isn't the world. The post is reductive and build on some monumental and flimsy quantitative generalisations. What's wrong with down-loading a text, marking it up, playing around with it and posting it for others to have a look at?. There is no action in the post and the ideas in it could be broken down into a few blocks of quality time where some excellent work could be produced. The DH is about technology and if there are barriers to applying technology in all sorts of social or cultural contents then there are some really nice people who could be asked for assistance.
If Frederic is ever in Melbourne I'll take him out for a beer.
Kind regards,
Craig
On 27/04/2013 11:04 PM, Domenico Fiormonte wrote:
I guess people on this list would be interested in reading this post by Frédéric Clavert:
http://www.clavert.net/the-digital-humanities-multicultural-revolution-did-n...
globaloutlookdh-l mailing list globaloutlookdh-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/globaloutlookdh-l
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-- Dr Craig Bellamy Research Fellow ___________________________ Computing and Information Systems The University of Melbourne Parkville, Melbourne, Australia ___________________________ w: craigbellamy.net
-- Dr Craig Bellamy Research Fellow ___________________________ Computing and Information Systems The University of Melbourne Parkville, Melbourne, Australia ___________________________ w: craigbellamy.net
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Hi Frédéric,
I appreciated your blog post, and while I am in favor of vigorous criticisms from all directions, I hope that this list in particular can be a place where concerns about the global cultural implications and affordances of digital technology in the humanities can receive thorough and sympathetic consideration. These are issues of tremendous importance inside the academy and to some extent outside of it, and they need wide and careful discussion.
David
On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 7:29 AM, Frédéric Clavert frederic@clavert.netwrote:
Dear all,
I'm new to the list - I knew I should have been member of it for a while - and my first message will be an answer to an answer to a post of mine.
Yes, my quantitative examples are flimsy. But my post is not based on them. It's just an illustration to a feeling which is: there are many non-english speaking DH projects that are somewhere on a hidden continent, because they're not in English. And it would be great to bring them a bit of light.
As for as action is concerned, I already participated to several THATCamp Organisation committees (Paris (twice), Florence, Luxembourg-Trier) and organised two conferences on history and the digital era in Luxembourg (and the third is on its way). I also have to deal with a team of enginers, documentalists and one historian (myself) that work on the present and future of a multilingual digital library (http://www.cvce.eu).
Beyond that, I never refuse a beer.
best, Frédéric
2013/4/28 Alex Gil colibri.alex@gmail.com:
Let us begin it. Que comience!
On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 10:53 PM, Craig Bellamy txt@craigbellamy.net wrote:
Dear GO
I find the post curious Domenico, but the DH is just a small part of the world, it isn't the world. The post is reductive and build on some monumental and flimsy quantitative generalisations. What's wrong with down-loading a text, marking it up, playing around with it and posting
it
for others to have a look at?. There is no action in the post and the
ideas
in it could be broken down into a few blocks of quality time where some excellent work could be produced. The DH is about technology and if
there
are barriers to applying technology in all sorts of social or cultural contents then there are some really nice people who could be asked for assistance.
If Frederic is ever in Melbourne I'll take him out for a beer.
Kind regards,
Craig
On 27/04/2013 11:04 PM, Domenico Fiormonte wrote:
I guess people on this list would be interested in reading this post by Frédéric Clavert:
http://www.clavert.net/the-digital-humanities-multicultural-revolution-did-n...
globaloutlookdh-l mailing list globaloutlookdh-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/globaloutlookdh-l
You are currently subscribed to this list in NON-digest mode. This
means
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day's
postings. To change your settings go to http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/options/globaloutlookdh-l You can
request a
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-- Dr Craig Bellamy Research Fellow ___________________________ Computing and Information Systems The University of Melbourne Parkville, Melbourne, Australia ___________________________ w: craigbellamy.net
-- Dr Craig Bellamy Research Fellow ___________________________ Computing and Information Systems The University of Melbourne Parkville, Melbourne, Australia ___________________________ w: craigbellamy.net
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-- Docteur en histoire contemporaine
Hjalmar Schacht, financier et diplomate Les banquiers centraux dans la construction européenne L'histoire et le numérique
globaloutlookdh-l mailing list globaloutlookdh-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/globaloutlookdh-l
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Bonjour Frédéric,
Judging from individual conversations I've had while helping build our small global network, I can hazard that your feeling is shared by most of us here at GO::DH. One of the explicit goals of GO::DH is precisely to make the work done in other languages and areas of the world visiblehttp://www.globaloutlookdh.org/around-dh-in-80-days/to the English dominant, but I would remind us that the vice versa is as equally important. I understand Craig's comments about DH ≠ the world, to mean that DH may very well be practiced by another name and another flavor in many parts of the world today. These conversations remind me of the early years of the Comintern https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comintern, when they set out to take the gospel of Marxism to "the third world," and came back to Moscow with the realization that Marxism was already out there, the world just didn't call it that! In short, nothing can happen until we have a large network founded on mutual recognition.
We have much work to do in the francophone world, and we hope that means not just France or projects IN France about the francophone world. I myself have been focusing on the hispanophone worldhttp://www.humanidadesdigitales.net/, and I can tell you we have many challenges building networks there. Yes, we are using the problematic brand of DH as the banner to unite, perhaps because networks need common brands (as far as I can see), but also because we can envision a truly global annual conference and a community of practitioners and theorists of the digital arts. While we develop robust traditions in these languages, we can't expect the English "center" to always pay attention, but that doesn't trouble me much as long as we get enough attention to tap into the desire for collaboration that Craig signals.
I myself couldn't care much for what Bethany Nowviskie calls the "typical markers of academic prestigehttp://chronicle.com/article/Devising-New-Roles-for/138809/." I do know that many of you are worried about those, and I sympathize, but I encourage you to seize the much more present task of building "literatures" in our languages and discuss our different relationships to technology writ-large. In the end we are challenged (sometimes blessed) by the status of English as lingua franca (once French, Latin, Arabic, Chinese, etc) and its role as the code-base from which our digital systems borrow their cultural assumptions, but this should be no insurmountable obstacle to building language-specific traditions and communities.
As David suggests, GO::DH could also be that place where we carefully grate our regional and cultural assumptions about technology against the grain of *different* environments in order to refine those assumptions. In my view, these slightly unharmonious encounters will be precisely what we need in order to shed more clarity on the relationship between scholarship and technology in a global context (if such a thing is possible).
Count on me for the beers too!
On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 7:29 AM, Frédéric Clavert frederic@clavert.netwrote:
Dear all,
I'm new to the list - I knew I should have been member of it for a while - and my first message will be an answer to an answer to a post of mine.
Yes, my quantitative examples are flimsy. But my post is not based on them. It's just an illustration to a feeling which is: there are many non-english speaking DH projects that are somewhere on a hidden continent, because they're not in English. And it would be great to bring them a bit of light.
As for as action is concerned, I already participated to several THATCamp Organisation committees (Paris (twice), Florence, Luxembourg-Trier) and organised two conferences on history and the digital era in Luxembourg (and the third is on its way). I also have to deal with a team of enginers, documentalists and one historian (myself) that work on the present and future of a multilingual digital library (http://www.cvce.eu).
Beyond that, I never refuse a beer.
best, Frédéric
2013/4/28 Alex Gil colibri.alex@gmail.com:
Let us begin it. Que comience!
On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 10:53 PM, Craig Bellamy txt@craigbellamy.net wrote:
Dear GO
I find the post curious Domenico, but the DH is just a small part of the world, it isn't the world. The post is reductive and build on some monumental and flimsy quantitative generalisations. What's wrong with down-loading a text, marking it up, playing around with it and posting
it
for others to have a look at?. There is no action in the post and the
ideas
in it could be broken down into a few blocks of quality time where some excellent work could be produced. The DH is about technology and if
there
are barriers to applying technology in all sorts of social or cultural contents then there are some really nice people who could be asked for assistance.
If Frederic is ever in Melbourne I'll take him out for a beer.
Kind regards,
Craig
On 27/04/2013 11:04 PM, Domenico Fiormonte wrote:
I guess people on this list would be interested in reading this post by Frédéric Clavert:
http://www.clavert.net/the-digital-humanities-multicultural-revolution-did-n...
globaloutlookdh-l mailing list globaloutlookdh-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/globaloutlookdh-l
You are currently subscribed to this list in NON-digest mode. This
means
you receive every message as it is posted.
If this represents too much traffic, you can also subscribe in DIGEST mode. This sends out a single email once a day containing the entire
day's
postings. To change your settings go to http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/options/globaloutlookdh-l You can
request a
password reminder from this page if you have forgotten yours.
-- Dr Craig Bellamy Research Fellow ___________________________ Computing and Information Systems The University of Melbourne Parkville, Melbourne, Australia ___________________________ w: craigbellamy.net
-- Dr Craig Bellamy Research Fellow ___________________________ Computing and Information Systems The University of Melbourne Parkville, Melbourne, Australia ___________________________ w: craigbellamy.net
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-- Docteur en histoire contemporaine
Hjalmar Schacht, financier et diplomate Les banquiers centraux dans la construction européenne L'histoire et le numérique
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The experience we are having with the RedHD (Red de Humanidades Digitales) is that there ARE people who are working on DH projects, usually not calling themselves digital humanists at all. However, the problem is not that they don't call themselves digital humanists. The problem is the enormous difficulties we have encountered to actually find the few people that we have managed to find. It seems to be based on chance, luck and fortuitous conversations. Why is is that projects in English are more visible than other ones? Because the DH network is primarily for and by English speaking colleagues? I don't know. What I do think is that although we have managed to find DH projects in Spanish these people are not connected between themselves. It seems to be that the communication channels are not properly established, or if they exist we haven't been able to tap into them. I for one think that they do not exist and this is what we have to focus on (one of the great things about this list, for example). These communication channels can allow us to find and connect and then yes, hopefully collaborate in the language most favourable. Best, Isabel
-------- Dra. Isabel Galina Instituto de Investigaciones Bibliográficas, Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México (UNAM) igalina@unam.mx
________________________________ De: globaloutlookdh-l-bounces@uleth.ca [globaloutlookdh-l-bounces@uleth.ca] en nombre de Alex Gil [colibri.alex@gmail.com] Enviado: lunes, 29 de abril de 2013 03:37 p.m. Para: A list for participants in the ADHO DH Global Outlook Community Asunto: Re: [globaloutlookDH-l] A revolution yet to happen
Bonjour Frédéric,
Judging from individual conversations I've had while helping build our small global network, I can hazard that your feeling is shared by most of us here at GO::DH. One of the explicit goals of GO::DH is precisely to make the work done in other languages and areas of the world visiblehttp://www.globaloutlookdh.org/around-dh-in-80-days/ to the English dominant, but I would remind us that the vice versa is as equally important. I understand Craig's comments about DH ≠ the world, to mean that DH may very well be practiced by another name and another flavor in many parts of the world today. These conversations remind me of the early years of the Cominternhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comintern, when they set out to take the gospel of Marxism to "the third world," and came back to Moscow with the realization that Marxism was already out there, the world just didn't call it that! In short, nothing can happen until we have a large network founded on mutual recognition.
We have much work to do in the francophone world, and we hope that means not just France or projects IN France about the francophone world. I myself have been focusing on the hispanophone worldhttp://www.humanidadesdigitales.net/, and I can tell you we have many challenges building networks there. Yes, we are using the problematic brand of DH as the banner to unite, perhaps because networks need common brands (as far as I can see), but also because we can envision a truly global annual conference and a community of practitioners and theorists of the digital arts. While we develop robust traditions in these languages, we can't expect the English "center" to always pay attention, but that doesn't trouble me much as long as we get enough attention to tap into the desire for collaboration that Craig signals.
I myself couldn't care much for what Bethany Nowviskie calls the "typical markers of academic prestigehttp://chronicle.com/article/Devising-New-Roles-for/138809/." I do know that many of you are worried about those, and I sympathize, but I encourage you to seize the much more present task of building "literatures" in our languages and discuss our different relationships to technology writ-large. In the end we are challenged (sometimes blessed) by the status of English as lingua franca (once French, Latin, Arabic, Chinese, etc) and its role as the code-base from which our digital systems borrow their cultural assumptions, but this should be no insurmountable obstacle to building language-specific traditions and communities.
As David suggests, GO::DH could also be that place where we carefully grate our regional and cultural assumptions about technology against the grain of different environments in order to refine those assumptions. In my view, these slightly unharmonious encounters will be precisely what we need in order to shed more clarity on the relationship between scholarship and technology in a global context (if such a thing is possible).
Count on me for the beers too!
On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 7:29 AM, Frédéric Clavert <frederic@clavert.netmailto:frederic@clavert.net> wrote: Dear all,
I'm new to the list - I knew I should have been member of it for a while - and my first message will be an answer to an answer to a post of mine.
Yes, my quantitative examples are flimsy. But my post is not based on them. It's just an illustration to a feeling which is: there are many non-english speaking DH projects that are somewhere on a hidden continent, because they're not in English. And it would be great to bring them a bit of light.
As for as action is concerned, I already participated to several THATCamp Organisation committees (Paris (twice), Florence, Luxembourg-Trier) and organised two conferences on history and the digital era in Luxembourg (and the third is on its way). I also have to deal with a team of enginers, documentalists and one historian (myself) that work on the present and future of a multilingual digital library (http://www.cvce.eu).
Beyond that, I never refuse a beer.
best, Frédéric
2013/4/28 Alex Gil <colibri.alex@gmail.commailto:colibri.alex@gmail.com>:
Let us begin it. Que comience!
On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 10:53 PM, Craig Bellamy <txt@craigbellamy.netmailto:txt@craigbellamy.net> wrote:
Dear GO
I find the post curious Domenico, but the DH is just a small part of the world, it isn't the world. The post is reductive and build on some monumental and flimsy quantitative generalisations. What's wrong with down-loading a text, marking it up, playing around with it and posting it for others to have a look at?. There is no action in the post and the ideas in it could be broken down into a few blocks of quality time where some excellent work could be produced. The DH is about technology and if there are barriers to applying technology in all sorts of social or cultural contents then there are some really nice people who could be asked for assistance.
If Frederic is ever in Melbourne I'll take him out for a beer.
Kind regards,
Craig
On 27/04/2013 11:04 PM, Domenico Fiormonte wrote:
I guess people on this list would be interested in reading this post by Frédéric Clavert:
http://www.clavert.net/the-digital-humanities-multicultural-revolution-did-n...
globaloutlookdh-l mailing list globaloutlookdh-l@uleth.camailto:globaloutlookdh-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/globaloutlookdh-l
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-- Dr Craig Bellamy Research Fellow ___________________________ Computing and Information Systems The University of Melbourne Parkville, Melbourne, Australia ___________________________ w: craigbellamy.nethttp://craigbellamy.net
-- Dr Craig Bellamy Research Fellow ___________________________ Computing and Information Systems The University of Melbourne Parkville, Melbourne, Australia ___________________________ w: craigbellamy.nethttp://craigbellamy.net
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-- Docteur en histoire contemporaine
Hjalmar Schacht, financier et diplomate Les banquiers centraux dans la construction européenne L'histoire et le numérique
_______________________________________________ globaloutlookdh-l mailing list globaloutlookdh-l@uleth.camailto:globaloutlookdh-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/globaloutlookdh-l
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Thanks, Isabel.
Something happened at THATCamp Paris 2010 for the French (more than the French speaking) DH, is that we all realised that we were doing something that could be labelled as "DH" but most of us did no know it. Everything was ready to start building a French DH community, it just lacked a kind of "founding" event - and THATCamp Paris and the writing of our manifesto became this event.
Best, Frédéric
2013/4/29 igalina igalina@unam.mx:
The experience we are having with the RedHD (Red de Humanidades Digitales) is that there ARE people who are working on DH projects, usually not calling themselves digital humanists at all. However, the problem is not that they don't call themselves digital humanists. The problem is the enormous difficulties we have encountered to actually find the few people that we have managed to find. It seems to be based on chance, luck and fortuitous conversations. Why is is that projects in English are more visible than other ones? Because the DH network is primarily for and by English speaking colleagues? I don't know. What I do think is that although we have managed to find DH projects in Spanish these people are not connected between themselves. It seems to be that the communication channels are not properly established, or if they exist we haven't been able to tap into them. I for one think that they do not exist and this is what we have to focus on (one of the great things about this list, for example). These communication channels can allow us to find and connect and then yes, hopefully collaborate in the language most favourable. Best, Isabel
Dra. Isabel Galina Instituto de Investigaciones Bibliográficas, Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México (UNAM) igalina@unam.mx
De: globaloutlookdh-l-bounces@uleth.ca [globaloutlookdh-l-bounces@uleth.ca] en nombre de Alex Gil [colibri.alex@gmail.com] Enviado: lunes, 29 de abril de 2013 03:37 p.m. Para: A list for participants in the ADHO DH Global Outlook Community Asunto: Re: [globaloutlookDH-l] A revolution yet to happen
Bonjour Frédéric,
Judging from individual conversations I've had while helping build our small global network, I can hazard that your feeling is shared by most of us here at GO::DH. One of the explicit goals of GO::DH is precisely to make the work done in other languages and areas of the world visible to the English dominant, but I would remind us that the vice versa is as equally important. I understand Craig's comments about DH ≠ the world, to mean that DH may very well be practiced by another name and another flavor in many parts of the world today. These conversations remind me of the early years of the Comintern, when they set out to take the gospel of Marxism to "the third world," and came back to Moscow with the realization that Marxism was already out there, the world just didn't call it that! In short, nothing can happen until we have a large network founded on mutual recognition.
We have much work to do in the francophone world, and we hope that means not just France or projects IN France about the francophone world. I myself have been focusing on the hispanophone world, and I can tell you we have many challenges building networks there. Yes, we are using the problematic brand of DH as the banner to unite, perhaps because networks need common brands (as far as I can see), but also because we can envision a truly global annual conference and a community of practitioners and theorists of the digital arts. While we develop robust traditions in these languages, we can't expect the English "center" to always pay attention, but that doesn't trouble me much as long as we get enough attention to tap into the desire for collaboration that Craig signals.
I myself couldn't care much for what Bethany Nowviskie calls the "typical markers of academic prestige." I do know that many of you are worried about those, and I sympathize, but I encourage you to seize the much more present task of building "literatures" in our languages and discuss our different relationships to technology writ-large. In the end we are challenged (sometimes blessed) by the status of English as lingua franca (once French, Latin, Arabic, Chinese, etc) and its role as the code-base from which our digital systems borrow their cultural assumptions, but this should be no insurmountable obstacle to building language-specific traditions and communities.
As David suggests, GO::DH could also be that place where we carefully grate our regional and cultural assumptions about technology against the grain of different environments in order to refine those assumptions. In my view, these slightly unharmonious encounters will be precisely what we need in order to shed more clarity on the relationship between scholarship and technology in a global context (if such a thing is possible).
Count on me for the beers too!
On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 7:29 AM, Frédéric Clavert frederic@clavert.net wrote:
Dear all,
I'm new to the list - I knew I should have been member of it for a while - and my first message will be an answer to an answer to a post of mine.
Yes, my quantitative examples are flimsy. But my post is not based on them. It's just an illustration to a feeling which is: there are many non-english speaking DH projects that are somewhere on a hidden continent, because they're not in English. And it would be great to bring them a bit of light.
As for as action is concerned, I already participated to several THATCamp Organisation committees (Paris (twice), Florence, Luxembourg-Trier) and organised two conferences on history and the digital era in Luxembourg (and the third is on its way). I also have to deal with a team of enginers, documentalists and one historian (myself) that work on the present and future of a multilingual digital library (http://www.cvce.eu).
Beyond that, I never refuse a beer.
best, Frédéric
2013/4/28 Alex Gil colibri.alex@gmail.com:
Let us begin it. Que comience!
On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 10:53 PM, Craig Bellamy txt@craigbellamy.net wrote:
Dear GO
I find the post curious Domenico, but the DH is just a small part of the world, it isn't the world. The post is reductive and build on some monumental and flimsy quantitative generalisations. What's wrong with down-loading a text, marking it up, playing around with it and posting it for others to have a look at?. There is no action in the post and the ideas in it could be broken down into a few blocks of quality time where some excellent work could be produced. The DH is about technology and if there are barriers to applying technology in all sorts of social or cultural contents then there are some really nice people who could be asked for assistance.
If Frederic is ever in Melbourne I'll take him out for a beer.
Kind regards,
Craig
On 27/04/2013 11:04 PM, Domenico Fiormonte wrote:
I guess people on this list would be interested in reading this post by Frédéric Clavert:
http://www.clavert.net/the-digital-humanities-multicultural-revolution-did-n...
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-- Dr Craig Bellamy Research Fellow ___________________________ Computing and Information Systems The University of Melbourne Parkville, Melbourne, Australia ___________________________ w: craigbellamy.net
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-- Docteur en histoire contemporaine
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Hello everyone,
This is a debate I myself am very interested in. I have tried to do things about it, for example by doing bilingual interviews ( http://4humanities.org/?s=redhd&x=0&y=0), or by participating remotely and IRL in events back in Mexico (http://disidenciacognitiva.wordpress.com/).
The effort it takes to individually do something bilingually, for example, is, literally, a double effort. Sometimes to little reward. At least immediate reward. I keep hopeful it will be useful somehow for someone in the future at least.
I'd like to say as well that a concentration of power or notoriety does not only happen between English-speaking academic cultures and the rest. It happens here in London (UK) too, for example. If you are outside the 'big two' London unis, it's like you don't exist. Plenty of people doing interesting stuff around/about/ digital technologies in the humanities and social sciences, but because our workplaces are not officially labeled as DH then it's harder to intervene, coexist or even get recognised by 'the centres'. This does not happen at the individual, social, human level though, it's more of a cultural phenomenon that often transcends individual wills or agencies.
I agree with Isabel there is a need to develop channels for communication. I'd also say we need to develop a culture of communication and collaboration. And more importantly, a *global* culture of communication and collaboration: that is, one that has an awareness of difference and that is willing to do things and think outside the box. This means doing stuff beyond the job description, and often in other languages than our own.
As a member of ACH and ADHO committees I can say that from English-speaking countries/institutions there is A LOT of interest in integrating/recognising/encouraging/acknowledging/getting to know/collaborating with non-English speaking scholars and their institutions. There is no anti non-English DH agenda at all, but a lot of good will and eagerness to widen access and participation.
As Alex has suggested, I also believe that those of us who also do or want to do DH-related research/practice in other languages than English need to reach out. Reach out to each other regardless of country or mother tongue. In my humble opinion there is both the need to develop 'literatures' in our mother tongues --as Alex also suggested-- but we also need to stop seeing the English language as the de facto enemy, "the language of conquest, the influx/of the language of hard nouns,/the language of metal," (Atwood).
In the same way that it is expensive, complicated and mostly impractical to host fully multilingual international conferences (maybe only the European Parliament and the United Nations have the infrastructure to make this viable) I honestly don't see a time in which it is not necessary to engage in scholarly communications in English at some point or another. Expecting DH to become completely multilingual (for example in a conference in Nebraska) seems very unlikely. If they don't come to us, we might need to go to them. If they ignore us, we need to make ourselves unavoidable, unmissable, ubiquituous.
Just my two cents...
All the best
Ernesto
On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 8:09 AM, Frédéric Clavert frederic@clavert.netwrote:
Thanks, Isabel.
Something happened at THATCamp Paris 2010 for the French (more than the French speaking) DH, is that we all realised that we were doing something that could be labelled as "DH" but most of us did no know it. Everything was ready to start building a French DH community, it just lacked a kind of "founding" event - and THATCamp Paris and the writing of our manifesto became this event.
Best, Frédéric
2013/4/29 igalina igalina@unam.mx:
The experience we are having with the RedHD (Red de Humanidades
Digitales)
is that there ARE people who are working on DH projects, usually not
calling
themselves digital humanists at all. However, the problem is not that
they
don't call themselves digital humanists. The problem is the enormous difficulties we have encountered to actually find the few people that we have managed to find. It seems to be based on chance, luck and fortuitous conversations. Why is is that projects in English are more visible than other ones?
Because
the DH network is primarily for and by English speaking colleagues? I
don't
know. What I do think is that although we have managed to find DH
projects
in Spanish these people are not connected between themselves. It seems
to be
that the communication channels are not properly established, or if they exist we haven't been able to tap into them. I for one think that they do not exist and this is what we have to focus on (one of the great things about this list, for example). These communication channels can allow us
to
find and connect and then yes, hopefully collaborate in the language most favourable. Best, Isabel
Dra. Isabel Galina Instituto de Investigaciones Bibliográficas, Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México (UNAM) igalina@unam.mx
De: globaloutlookdh-l-bounces@uleth.ca [
globaloutlookdh-l-bounces@uleth.ca]
en nombre de Alex Gil [colibri.alex@gmail.com] Enviado: lunes, 29 de abril de 2013 03:37 p.m. Para: A list for participants in the ADHO DH Global Outlook Community Asunto: Re: [globaloutlookDH-l] A revolution yet to happen
Bonjour Frédéric,
Judging from individual conversations I've had while helping build our
small
global network, I can hazard that your feeling is shared by most of us
here
at GO::DH. One of the explicit goals of GO::DH is precisely to make the work done in other languages and areas of the world visible to the
English
dominant, but I would remind us that the vice versa is as equally
important.
I understand Craig's comments about DH ≠ the world, to mean that DH may
very
well be practiced by another name and another flavor in many parts of the world today. These conversations remind me of the early years of the Comintern, when they set out to take the gospel of Marxism to "the third world," and came back to Moscow with the realization that Marxism was already out there, the world just didn't call it that! In short, nothing
can
happen until we have a large network founded on mutual recognition.
We have much work to do in the francophone world, and we hope that means
not
just France or projects IN France about the francophone world. I myself
have
been focusing on the hispanophone world, and I can tell you we have many challenges building networks there. Yes, we are using the problematic
brand
of DH as the banner to unite, perhaps because networks need common brands (as far as I can see), but also because we can envision a truly global annual conference and a community of practitioners and theorists of the digital arts. While we develop robust traditions in these languages, we can't expect the English "center" to always pay attention, but that
doesn't
trouble me much as long as we get enough attention to tap into the desire for collaboration that Craig signals.
I myself couldn't care much for what Bethany Nowviskie calls the "typical markers of academic prestige." I do know that many of you are worried
about
those, and I sympathize, but I encourage you to seize the much more
present
task of building "literatures" in our languages and discuss our different relationships to technology writ-large. In the end we are challenged (sometimes blessed) by the status of English as lingua franca (once
French,
Latin, Arabic, Chinese, etc) and its role as the code-base from which our digital systems borrow their cultural assumptions, but this should be no insurmountable obstacle to building language-specific traditions and communities.
As David suggests, GO::DH could also be that place where we carefully
grate
our regional and cultural assumptions about technology against the grain
of
different environments in order to refine those assumptions. In my view, these slightly unharmonious encounters will be precisely what we need in order to shed more clarity on the relationship between scholarship and technology in a global context (if such a thing is possible).
Count on me for the beers too!
On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 7:29 AM, Frédéric Clavert frederic@clavert.net wrote:
Dear all,
I'm new to the list - I knew I should have been member of it for a while - and my first message will be an answer to an answer to a post of mine.
Yes, my quantitative examples are flimsy. But my post is not based on them. It's just an illustration to a feeling which is: there are many non-english speaking DH projects that are somewhere on a hidden continent, because they're not in English. And it would be great to bring them a bit of light.
As for as action is concerned, I already participated to several THATCamp Organisation committees (Paris (twice), Florence, Luxembourg-Trier) and organised two conferences on history and the digital era in Luxembourg (and the third is on its way). I also have to deal with a team of enginers, documentalists and one historian (myself) that work on the present and future of a multilingual digital library (http://www.cvce.eu).
Beyond that, I never refuse a beer.
best, Frédéric
2013/4/28 Alex Gil colibri.alex@gmail.com:
Let us begin it. Que comience!
On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 10:53 PM, Craig Bellamy <txt@craigbellamy.net
wrote:
Dear GO
I find the post curious Domenico, but the DH is just a small part of the world, it isn't the world. The post is reductive and build on some monumental and flimsy quantitative generalisations. What's wrong
with
down-loading a text, marking it up, playing around with it and
posting
it for others to have a look at?. There is no action in the post and
the
ideas in it could be broken down into a few blocks of quality time where
some
excellent work could be produced. The DH is about technology and if there are barriers to applying technology in all sorts of social or
cultural
contents then there are some really nice people who could be asked
for
assistance.
If Frederic is ever in Melbourne I'll take him out for a beer.
Kind regards,
Craig
On 27/04/2013 11:04 PM, Domenico Fiormonte wrote:
I guess people on this list would be interested in reading this post by Frédéric Clavert:
http://www.clavert.net/the-digital-humanities-multicultural-revolution-did-n...
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-- Dr Craig Bellamy Research Fellow ___________________________ Computing and Information Systems The University of Melbourne Parkville, Melbourne, Australia ___________________________ w: craigbellamy.net
-- Dr Craig Bellamy Research Fellow ___________________________ Computing and Information Systems The University of Melbourne Parkville, Melbourne, Australia ___________________________ w: craigbellamy.net
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-- Docteur en histoire contemporaine
Hjalmar Schacht, financier et diplomate Les banquiers centraux dans la construction européenne L'histoire et le numérique
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-- Docteur en histoire contemporaine
Hjalmar Schacht, financier et diplomate Les banquiers centraux dans la construction européenne L'histoire et le numérique
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And I think also it is worth noting that globaloutlookdh was founded precisely to address this problem: which I think personally involves network, terminological, and cultural issues, as well as linguistic. Here are two of my statements of the background that led to forming the group: http://dpod.kakelbont.ca/2012/11/02/in-a-rich-mans-world-global-dh/ and the proposal to ADHO: http://ubuntuone.com/187LiVZpJKwFNaRV0lZJeD
At the same time, as Ernesto points out, you need to be careful about stereotypes in discussing the "Anglo-American" domination. As I recently pointed out in a blog posting, for example, Domenico's article in the Koln dialogues actually points to a Canadian, rather than Anglo-American, hegemony of the institutions he discusses. http://dpod.kakelbont.ca/2013/03/07/the-true-north-strong-and-hegemonic-or-w...
This is important because it suggests that academic cultures are really micro-environments and that you need to be very open to what makes things tick in each environment. I hope myself that this will be the way this happens.
The one great advantage we have, as people who are interested in the use of computers in the Arts, Humanities, and Cultural Heritage sectors, is that this interest can act as a paradisciplinary bridge: that is to say, that our interest in the common problem of how computing can be used in these environments seems to me to give us a great opportunity to find common purpose in a way that is often surprisingly difficult in the traditional humanities, where our networks are further broken down by the cultural, linguistic, and chronological specificity of our disciplines.
Because my background is in the study of Anglo-Saxon England, I come at this connection very much through the paradisciplinary aspects of things. One of the other things I've been really inspired by is the extent to which already we are teaching each other in (what I think is) an exchange of ideas and experiences that is breaking down previous disconnects.
Does this match other's experiences?
-dan
On 13-04-30 01:34 AM, Ernesto Priego wrote:
Hello everyone,
This is a debate I myself am very interested in. I have tried to do things about it, for example by doing bilingual interviews (http://4humanities.org/?s=redhd&x=0&y=0), or by participating remotely and IRL in events back in Mexico (http://disidenciacognitiva.wordpress.com/).
The effort it takes to individually do something bilingually, for example, is, literally, a double effort. Sometimes to little reward. At least immediate reward. I keep hopeful it will be useful somehow for someone in the future at least.
I'd like to say as well that a concentration of power or notoriety does not only happen between English-speaking academic cultures and the rest. It happens here in London (UK) too, for example. If you are outside the 'big two' London unis, it's like you don't exist. Plenty of people doing interesting stuff around/about/ digital technologies in the humanities and social sciences, but because our workplaces are not officially labeled as DH then it's harder to intervene, coexist or even get recognised by 'the centres'. This does not happen at the individual, social, human level though, it's more of a cultural phenomenon that often transcends individual wills or agencies.
I agree with Isabel there is a need to develop channels for communication. I'd also say we need to develop a culture of communication and collaboration. And more importantly, a *global* culture of communication and collaboration: that is, one that has an awareness of difference and that is willing to do things and think outside the box. This means doing stuff beyond the job description, and often in other languages than our own.
As a member of ACH and ADHO committees I can say that from English-speaking countries/institutions there is A LOT of interest in integrating/recognising/encouraging/acknowledging/getting to know/collaborating with non-English speaking scholars and their institutions. There is no anti non-English DH agenda at all, but a lot of good will and eagerness to widen access and participation.
As Alex has suggested, I also believe that those of us who also do or want to do DH-related research/practice in other languages than English need to reach out. Reach out to each other regardless of country or mother tongue. In my humble opinion there is both the need to develop 'literatures' in our mother tongues --as Alex also suggested-- but we also need to stop seeing the English language as the de facto enemy, "the language of conquest, the influx/of the language of hard nouns,/the language of metal," (Atwood).
In the same way that it is expensive, complicated and mostly impractical to host fully multilingual international conferences (maybe only the European Parliament and the United Nations have the infrastructure to make this viable) I honestly don't see a time in which it is not necessary to engage in scholarly communications in English at some point or another. Expecting DH to become completely multilingual (for example in a conference in Nebraska) seems very unlikely. If they don't come to us, we might need to go to them. If they ignore us, we need to make ourselves unavoidable, unmissable, ubiquituous.
Just my two cents...
All the best
Ernesto
On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 8:09 AM, Frédéric Clavert <frederic@clavert.net mailto:frederic@clavert.net> wrote:
Thanks, Isabel. Something happened at THATCamp Paris 2010 for the French (more than the French speaking) DH, is that we all realised that we were doing something that could be labelled as "DH" but most of us did no know it. Everything was ready to start building a French DH community, it just lacked a kind of "founding" event - and THATCamp Paris and the writing of our manifesto became this event. Best, Frédéric 2013/4/29 igalina <igalina@unam.mx <mailto:igalina@unam.mx>>: > The experience we are having with the RedHD (Red de Humanidades Digitales) > is that there ARE people who are working on DH projects, usually not calling > themselves digital humanists at all. However, the problem is not that they > don't call themselves digital humanists. The problem is the enormous > difficulties we have encountered to actually find the few people that we > have managed to find. It seems to be based on chance, luck and fortuitous > conversations. > Why is is that projects in English are more visible than other ones? Because > the DH network is primarily for and by English speaking colleagues? I don't > know. What I do think is that although we have managed to find DH projects > in Spanish these people are not connected between themselves. It seems to be > that the communication channels are not properly established, or if they > exist we haven't been able to tap into them. I for one think that they do > not exist and this is what we have to focus on (one of the great things > about this list, for example). These communication channels can allow us to > find and connect and then yes, hopefully collaborate in the language most > favourable. > Best, > Isabel > > -------- > Dra. Isabel Galina > Instituto de Investigaciones Bibliográficas, > Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México (UNAM) > igalina@unam.mx <mailto:igalina@unam.mx> > > > > > ________________________________ > De: globaloutlookdh-l-bounces@uleth.ca <mailto:globaloutlookdh-l-bounces@uleth.ca> [globaloutlookdh-l-bounces@uleth.ca <mailto:globaloutlookdh-l-bounces@uleth.ca>] > en nombre de Alex Gil [colibri.alex@gmail.com <mailto:colibri.alex@gmail.com>] > Enviado: lunes, 29 de abril de 2013 03:37 p.m. > Para: A list for participants in the ADHO DH Global Outlook Community > Asunto: Re: [globaloutlookDH-l] A revolution yet to happen > > Bonjour Frédéric, > > Judging from individual conversations I've had while helping build our small > global network, I can hazard that your feeling is shared by most of us here > at GO::DH. One of the explicit goals of GO::DH is precisely to make the > work done in other languages and areas of the world visible to the English > dominant, but I would remind us that the vice versa is as equally important. > I understand Craig's comments about DH ≠ the world, to mean that DH may very > well be practiced by another name and another flavor in many parts of the > world today. These conversations remind me of the early years of the > Comintern, when they set out to take the gospel of Marxism to "the third > world," and came back to Moscow with the realization that Marxism was > already out there, the world just didn't call it that! In short, nothing can > happen until we have a large network founded on mutual recognition. > > We have much work to do in the francophone world, and we hope that means not > just France or projects IN France about the francophone world. I myself have > been focusing on the hispanophone world, and I can tell you we have many > challenges building networks there. Yes, we are using the problematic brand > of DH as the banner to unite, perhaps because networks need common brands > (as far as I can see), but also because we can envision a truly global > annual conference and a community of practitioners and theorists of the > digital arts. While we develop robust traditions in these languages, we > can't expect the English "center" to always pay attention, but that doesn't > trouble me much as long as we get enough attention to tap into the desire > for collaboration that Craig signals. > > I myself couldn't care much for what Bethany Nowviskie calls the "typical > markers of academic prestige." I do know that many of you are worried about > those, and I sympathize, but I encourage you to seize the much more present > task of building "literatures" in our languages and discuss our different > relationships to technology writ-large. In the end we are challenged > (sometimes blessed) by the status of English as lingua franca (once French, > Latin, Arabic, Chinese, etc) and its role as the code-base from which our > digital systems borrow their cultural assumptions, but this should be no > insurmountable obstacle to building language-specific traditions and > communities. > > As David suggests, GO::DH could also be that place where we carefully grate > our regional and cultural assumptions about technology against the grain of > different environments in order to refine those assumptions. In my view, > these slightly unharmonious encounters will be precisely what we need in > order to shed more clarity on the relationship between scholarship and > technology in a global context (if such a thing is possible). > > Count on me for the beers too! > > > On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 7:29 AM, Frédéric Clavert <frederic@clavert.net <mailto:frederic@clavert.net>> > wrote: >> >> Dear all, >> >> I'm new to the list - I knew I should have been member of it for a >> while - and my first message will be an answer to an answer to a post >> of mine. >> >> Yes, my quantitative examples are flimsy. But my post is not based on >> them. It's just an illustration to a feeling which is: there are many >> non-english speaking DH projects that are somewhere on a hidden >> continent, because they're not in English. And it would be great to >> bring them a bit of light. >> >> As for as action is concerned, I already participated to several >> THATCamp Organisation committees (Paris (twice), Florence, >> Luxembourg-Trier) and organised two conferences on history and the >> digital era in Luxembourg (and the third is on its way). I also have >> to deal with a team of enginers, documentalists and one historian >> (myself) that work on the present and future of a multilingual digital >> library (http://www.cvce.eu). >> >> Beyond that, I never refuse a beer. >> >> best, >> Frédéric >> >> >> 2013/4/28 Alex Gil <colibri.alex@gmail.com <mailto:colibri.alex@gmail.com>>: >> > Let us begin it. Que comience! >> > >> > >> > On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 10:53 PM, Craig Bellamy <txt@craigbellamy.net <mailto:txt@craigbellamy.net>> >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> Dear GO >> >> >> >> I find the post curious Domenico, but the DH is just a small part of >> >> the >> >> world, it isn't the world. The post is reductive and build on some >> >> monumental and flimsy quantitative generalisations. What's wrong with >> >> down-loading a text, marking it up, playing around with it and posting >> >> it >> >> for others to have a look at?. There is no action in the post and the >> >> ideas >> >> in it could be broken down into a few blocks of quality time where some >> >> excellent work could be produced. The DH is about technology and if >> >> there >> >> are barriers to applying technology in all sorts of social or cultural >> >> contents then there are some really nice people who could be asked for >> >> assistance. >> >> >> >> If Frederic is ever in Melbourne I'll take him out for a beer. >> >> >> >> Kind regards, >> >> >> >> Craig >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 27/04/2013 11:04 PM, Domenico Fiormonte wrote: >> >>> >> >>> I guess people on this list would be interested in reading this post >> >>> by Frédéric Clavert: >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> http://www.clavert.net/the-digital-humanities-multicultural-revolution-did-not-happen-yet/ >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> globaloutlookdh-l mailing list >> >>> globaloutlookdh-l@uleth.ca <mailto:globaloutlookdh-l@uleth.ca> >> >>> http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/globaloutlookdh-l >> >>> >> >>> You are currently subscribed to this list in NON-digest mode. This >> >>> means >> >>> you receive every message as it is posted. >> >>> >> >>> If this represents too much traffic, you can also subscribe in DIGEST >> >>> mode. This sends out a single email once a day containing the entire >> >>> day's >> >>> postings. To change your settings go to >> >>> http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/options/globaloutlookdh-l You can >> >>> request a >> >>> password reminder from this page if you have forgotten yours. >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Dr Craig Bellamy >> >> Research Fellow >> >> ___________________________ >> >> Computing and Information Systems >> >> The University of Melbourne >> >> Parkville, Melbourne, Australia >> >> ___________________________ >> >> w: craigbellamy.net <http://craigbellamy.net> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Dr Craig Bellamy >> >> Research Fellow >> >> ___________________________ >> >> Computing and Information Systems >> >> The University of Melbourne >> >> Parkville, Melbourne, Australia >> >> ___________________________ >> >> w: craigbellamy.net <http://craigbellamy.net> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> globaloutlookdh-l mailing list >> >> globaloutlookdh-l@uleth.ca <mailto:globaloutlookdh-l@uleth.ca> >> >> http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/globaloutlookdh-l >> >> >> >> You are currently subscribed to this list in NON-digest mode. This >> >> means >> >> you receive every message as it is posted. >> >> If this represents too much traffic, you can also subscribe in DIGEST >> >> mode. This sends out a single email once a day containing the entire >> >> day's >> >> postings. To change your settings go to >> >> http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/options/globaloutlookdh-l You can >> >> request a >> >> password reminder from this page if you have forgotten yours. >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > globaloutlookdh-l mailing list >> > globaloutlookdh-l@uleth.ca <mailto:globaloutlookdh-l@uleth.ca> >> > http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/globaloutlookdh-l >> > >> > You are currently subscribed to this list in NON-digest mode. This means >> > you >> > receive every message as it is posted. >> > >> > If this represents too much traffic, you can also subscribe in DIGEST >> > mode. >> > This sends out a single email once a day containing the entire day's >> > postings. To change your settings go to >> > http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/options/globaloutlookdh-l You can >> > request a >> > password reminder from this page if you have forgotten yours. >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Docteur en histoire contemporaine >> > Hjalmar Schacht, financier et diplomate >> > Les banquiers centraux dans la construction européenne >> > L'histoire et le numérique >> >> _______________________________________________ >> globaloutlookdh-l mailing list >> globaloutlookdh-l@uleth.ca <mailto:globaloutlookdh-l@uleth.ca> >> http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/globaloutlookdh-l >> >> You are currently subscribed to this list in NON-digest mode. This means >> you receive every message as it is posted. >> >> If this represents too much traffic, you can also subscribe in DIGEST >> mode. This sends out a single email once a day containing the entire day's >> postings. To change your settings go to >> http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/options/globaloutlookdh-l You can request a >> password reminder from this page if you have forgotten yours. > > > > _______________________________________________ > globaloutlookdh-l mailing list > globaloutlookdh-l@uleth.ca <mailto:globaloutlookdh-l@uleth.ca> > http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/globaloutlookdh-l > > You are currently subscribed to this list in NON-digest mode. This means you > receive every message as it is posted. > > If this represents too much traffic, you can also subscribe in DIGEST mode. > This sends out a single email once a day containing the entire day's > postings. To change your settings go to > http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/options/globaloutlookdh-l You can request a > password reminder from this page if you have forgotten yours. > -- Docteur en histoire contemporaine > Hjalmar Schacht, financier et diplomate > Les banquiers centraux dans la construction européenne > L'histoire et le numérique _______________________________________________ globaloutlookdh-l mailing list globaloutlookdh-l@uleth.ca <mailto:globaloutlookdh-l@uleth.ca> http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/globaloutlookdh-l You are currently subscribed to this list in NON-digest mode. This means you receive every message as it is posted. If this represents too much traffic, you can also subscribe in DIGEST mode. This sends out a single email once a day containing the entire day's postings. To change your settings go to http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/options/globaloutlookdh-l You can request a password reminder from this page if you have forgotten yours.-- *Dr Ernesto Priego Lecturer in Library Science, City University London
http://epriego.wordpress.com/ @ernestopriego https://twitter.com/ernestopriego Coordinating Editor, The Comics Grid http://www.comicsgrid.com/: http://www.comicsgrid.com/ The Comics & The Multimodal World International Conference:http://www.thedclab.org/conference/ http://www.thedclab.org/conference/ Subscribe to the Comics Grid Newsletter: http://eepurl.com/iOYAj Please note that my old Yahoo email account is no longer in use.
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Craig Bellamy's post impacted me in ways that I had not envisioned and I thought I should reply to that and to some observations by Dan and Ernesto Priego.
After thinking about it for a while, I have concluded that it is important to be aware of our deep cultural differences when we post to this list. If we do not take them into account, we run the risk of alienating other people and might even push them away.
Dan is right about stereotypes of "Anglo-American" domination, but it is up to Anglo-Americans not to behave (or write) in ways that might be construed as imperialistic. This does not mean that we cannot communicate in English or that we should give up the idea of working together. Instead, it means that we have to find the best possible ways to cooperate with each other. Provided, of course, this is our intent.
I am glad that Ernesto brought up the "'big two' London units," because I think he is correct that for many people these embody the "real DH," while many other scholars are just ignored even though they might be working on great projects just around the corner. This shows that even within environments dominated by white English-speaking (should I say it?) males there is a hierarchy. Often, centres with a long history and a good reputation attract a high percentage of funding, causing others to be excluded.
I don't think that anyone is suggesting that there is a specific agenda to exclude non-English from DH, but I am also old enough to see that it wouldn't be necessary. In countries devastated by poverty or with profound social problems, there is very little place to support DH. Anyone that protests against positive discrimination doesn't understand this: the inequalities in the world are so marked that we need to bridge the gap to integrate people from less privileged backgrounds. If you think that you are not privileged just because you are white, born in a rich country or a male; then take a hard look at yourself and think how different your life would have been if those circumstances had been others.
All that said, those of us who have a different background have something else in common... At least part of our education has occurred in English (in the UK or the US or Canada) and we want to jump to defend these systems. However, when we create those avenues for collaboration Isabel, Ernesto and Alex have talked about, I don't want them to be another form of hegemony. They cannot be some kind of charitably enterprise given like the rusty coin one throws to the homeless at the subway station. I want collaboration to occur because we truly need each other and can benefit in a symbiotic way, no because to have a "pet third world person" would get you a grant.
Craig Bellamy´s idea that:
The DH is about technology and if there are barriers to applying technology in all sorts of social or cultural contents then there are some really nice people who could be asked for assistance.
misses the point of GO::DH. Our objective is not that the "little people" come nicely to ask for assistance. Instead, we want to empower scholars in different environments to work together in an environment of equality and respect. When we achieve this, then we will have done an important part of our work.
Best,
BB
On 30 Apr 2013, at 08:01, Daniel O'Donnell wrote:
And I think also it is worth noting that globaloutlookdh was founded precisely to address this problem: which I think personally involves network, terminological, and cultural issues, as well as linguistic. Here are two of my statements of the background that led to forming the group: http://dpod.kakelbont.ca/2012/11/02/in-a-rich-mans-world-global-dh/ and the proposal to ADHO: http://ubuntuone.com/187LiVZpJKwFNaRV0lZJeD
At the same time, as Ernesto points out, you need to be careful about stereotypes in discussing the "Anglo-American" domination. As I recently pointed out in a blog posting, for example, Domenico's article in the Koln dialogues actually points to a Canadian, rather than Anglo-American, hegemony of the institutions he discusses. http://dpod.kakelbont.ca/2013/03/07/the-true-north-strong-and-hegemonic-or-w...
This is important because it suggests that academic cultures are really micro-environments and that you need to be very open to what makes things tick in each environment. I hope myself that this will be the way this happens.
The one great advantage we have, as people who are interested in the use of computers in the Arts, Humanities, and Cultural Heritage sectors, is that this interest can act as a paradisciplinary bridge: that is to say, that our interest in the common problem of how computing can be used in these environments seems to me to give us a great opportunity to find common purpose in a way that is often surprisingly difficult in the traditional humanities, where our networks are further broken down by the cultural, linguistic, and chronological specificity of our disciplines.
Because my background is in the study of Anglo-Saxon England, I come at this connection very much through the paradisciplinary aspects of things. One of the other things I've been really inspired by is the extent to which already we are teaching each other in (what I think is) an exchange of ideas and experiences that is breaking down previous disconnects.
Does this match other's experiences?
-dan
On 13-04-30 01:34 AM, Ernesto Priego wrote:
Hello everyone,
This is a debate I myself am very interested in. I have tried to do things about it, for example by doing bilingual interviews (http://4humanities.org/?s=redhd&x=0&y=0), or by participating remotely and IRL in events back in Mexico (http://disidenciacognitiva.wordpress.com/).
The effort it takes to individually do something bilingually, for example, is, literally, a double effort. Sometimes to little reward. At least immediate reward. I keep hopeful it will be useful somehow for someone in the future at least.
I'd like to say as well that a concentration of power or notoriety does not only happen between English-speaking academic cultures and the rest. It happens here in London (UK) too, for example. If you are outside the 'big two' London unis, it's like you don't exist. Plenty of people doing interesting stuff around/about/ digital technologies in the humanities and social sciences, but because our workplaces are not officially labeled as DH then it's harder to intervene, coexist or even get recognised by 'the centres'. This does not happen at the individual, social, human level though, it's more of a cultural phenomenon that often transcends individual wills or agencies.
I agree with Isabel there is a need to develop channels for communication. I'd also say we need to develop a culture of communication and collaboration. And more importantly, a *global* culture of communication and collaboration: that is, one that has an awareness of difference and that is willing to do things and think outside the box. This means doing stuff beyond the job description, and often in other languages than our own.
As a member of ACH and ADHO committees I can say that from English-speaking countries/institutions there is A LOT of interest in integrating/recognising/encouraging/acknowledging/getting to know/collaborating with non-English speaking scholars and their institutions. There is no anti non-English DH agenda at all, but a lot of good will and eagerness to widen access and participation.
As Alex has suggested, I also believe that those of us who also do or want to do DH-related research/practice in other languages than English need to reach out. Reach out to each other regardless of country or mother tongue. In my humble opinion there is both the need to develop 'literatures' in our mother tongues --as Alex also suggested-- but we also need to stop seeing the English language as the de facto enemy, "the language of conquest, the influx/of the language of hard nouns,/the language of metal," (Atwood).
In the same way that it is expensive, complicated and mostly impractical to host fully multilingual international conferences (maybe only the European Parliament and the United Nations have the infrastructure to make this viable) I honestly don't see a time in which it is not necessary to engage in scholarly communications in English at some point or another. Expecting DH to become completely multilingual (for example in a conference in Nebraska) seems very unlikely. If they don't come to us, we might need to go to them. If they ignore us, we need to make ourselves unavoidable, unmissable, ubiquituous.
Just my two cents...
All the best
Ernesto
Very good points Barbara!
In terms of Anglo - Americans needing to be self-aware of assumptions that their way is normative, I think you are spot on. This is true of everybody to a certain extent, of course, but I think it is especially true in terms of use of English and especially assumptions about what is normal academic discourse. At the ADHO executive there recently was a discussion about multi lingual issues and somebody made the interesting observation that it might be the Anglophones that reed the most instruction in the use of English in the sense that they don't always realize the extent to which Native Speaker English and International English are not the same thing. That struck a chord with me as I am a serial offender.
I also agree on the centrality of exchange to this project. The. most important lesson taught to me at our meeting in Cuba is how important it is to believe in and value the opportunities for reciprocal learning: GO::DH will only work if it lives up to the claim that it is not an aid programme but a space for bridging gaps and especially discovering new learning and teaching and collaborations.
Daniel Paul 0'Donnell Department of English University of Lethbridge Lethbridge AB T1J 2X5 CANADA
+1 403 393 2539 daniel.odonnell@uleth.ca @DanielPaulOD http://people.uleth.ca/~daniel.odonnell/ http://dpod.kakelbont.ca/
Sent from Samsung tablet Tags:
-------- Original message -------- From: "Bordalejo, Barbara" bab995@mail.usask.ca Date: 04-30-2013 13:42 (GMT-07:00) To: "O'Donnell, Dan" daniel.odonnell@uleth.ca,"globaloutlookdh-l, MailList" globaloutlookdh-l@uleth.ca Subject: Re: [globaloutlookDH-l] A revolution yet to happen
Craig Bellamy's post impacted me in ways that I had not envisioned and I thought I should reply to that and to some observations by Dan and Ernesto Priego.
After thinking about it for a while, I have concluded that it is important to be aware of our deep cultural differences when we post to this list. If we do not take them into account, we run the risk of alienating other people and might even push them away.
Dan is right about stereotypes of "Anglo-American" domination, but it is up to Anglo-Americans not to behave (or write) in ways that might be construed as imperialistic. This does not mean that we cannot communicate in English or that we should give up the idea of working together. Instead, it means that we have to find the best possible ways to cooperate with each other. Provided, of course, this is our intent.
I am glad that Ernesto brought up the "'big two' London units," because I think he is correct that for many people these embody the "real DH," while many other scholars are just ignored even though they might be working on great projects just around the corner. This shows that even within environments dominated by white English-speaking (should I say it?) males there is a hierarchy. Often, centres with a long history and a good reputation attract a high percentage of funding, causing others to be excluded.
I don't think that anyone is suggesting that there is a specific agenda to exclude non-English from DH, but I am also old enough to see that it wouldn't be necessary. In countries devastated by poverty or with profound social problems, there is very little place to support DH. Anyone that protests against positive discrimination doesn't understand this: the inequalities in the world are so marked that we need to bridge the gap to integrate people from less privileged backgrounds. If you think that you are not privileged just because you are white, born in a rich country or a male; then take a hard look at yourself and think how different your life would have been if those circumstances had been others.
All that said, those of us who have a different background have something else in common... At least part of our education has occurred in English (in the UK or the US or Canada) and we want to jump to defend these systems. However, when we create those avenues for collaboration Isabel, Ernesto and Alex have talked about, I don't want them to be another form of hegemony. They cannot be some kind of charitably enterprise given like the rusty coin one throws to the homeless at the subway station. I want collaboration to occur because we truly need each other and can benefit in a symbiotic way, no because to have a "pet third world person" would get you a grant.
Craig Bellamy´s idea that:
The DH is about technology and if there are barriers to applying technology in all sorts of social or cultural contents then there are some really nice people who could be asked for assistance.
misses the point of GO::DH. Our objective is not that the "little people" come nicely to ask for assistance. Instead, we want to empower scholars in different environments to work together in an environment of equality and respect. When we achieve this, then we will have done an important part of our work.
Best,
BB
On 30 Apr 2013, at 08:01, Daniel O'Donnell wrote:
And I think also it is worth noting that globaloutlookdh was founded precisely to address this problem: which I think personally involves network, terminological, and cultural issues, as well as linguistic. Here are two of my statements of the background that led to forming the group: http://dpod.kakelbont.ca/2012/11/02/in-a-rich-mans-world-global-dh/ and the proposal to ADHO: http://ubuntuone.com/187LiVZpJKwFNaRV0lZJeD
At the same time, as Ernesto points out, you need to be careful about stereotypes in discussing the "Anglo-American" domination. As I recently pointed out in a blog posting, for example, Domenico's article in the Koln dialogues actually points to a Canadian, rather than Anglo-American, hegemony of the institutions he discusses. http://dpod.kakelbont.ca/2013/03/07/the-true-north-strong-and-hegemonic-or-w...
This is important because it suggests that academic cultures are really micro-environments and that you need to be very open to what makes things tick in each environment. I hope myself that this will be the way this happens.
The one great advantage we have, as people who are interested in the use of computers in the Arts, Humanities, and Cultural Heritage sectors, is that this interest can act as a paradisciplinary bridge: that is to say, that our interest in the common problem of how computing can be used in these environments seems to me to give us a great opportunity to find common purpose in a way that is often surprisingly difficult in the traditional humanities, where our networks are further broken down by the cultural, linguistic, and chronological specificity of our disciplines.
Because my background is in the study of Anglo-Saxon England, I come at this connection very much through the paradisciplinary aspects of things. One of the other things I've been really inspired by is the extent to which already we are teaching each other in (what I think is) an exchange of ideas and experiences that is breaking down previous disconnects.
Does this match other's experiences?
-dan
On 13-04-30 01:34 AM, Ernesto Priego wrote:
Hello everyone,
This is a debate I myself am very interested in. I have tried to do things about it, for example by doing bilingual interviews (http://4humanities.org/?s=redhd&x=0&y=0), or by participating remotely and IRL in events back in Mexico (http://disidenciacognitiva.wordpress.com/).
The effort it takes to individually do something bilingually, for example, is, literally, a double effort. Sometimes to little reward. At least immediate reward. I keep hopeful it will be useful somehow for someone in the future at least.
I'd like to say as well that a concentration of power or notoriety does not only happen between English-speaking academic cultures and the rest. It happens here in London (UK) too, for example. If you are outside the 'big two' London unis, it's like you don't exist. Plenty of people doing interesting stuff around/about/ digital technologies in the humanities and social sciences, but because our workplaces are not officially labeled as DH then it's harder to intervene, coexist or even get recognised by 'the centres'. This does not happen at the individual, social, human level though, it's more of a cultural phenomenon that often transcends individual wills or agencies.
I agree with Isabel there is a need to develop channels for communication. I'd also say we need to develop a culture of communication and collaboration. And more importantly, a *global* culture of communication and collaboration: that is, one that has an awareness of difference and that is willing to do things and think outside the box. This means doing stuff beyond the job description, and often in other languages than our own.
As a member of ACH and ADHO committees I can say that from English-speaking countries/institutions there is A LOT of interest in integrating/recognising/encouraging/acknowledging/getting to know/collaborating with non-English speaking scholars and their institutions. There is no anti non-English DH agenda at all, but a lot of good will and eagerness to widen access and participation.
As Alex has suggested, I also believe that those of us who also do or want to do DH-related research/practice in other languages than English need to reach out. Reach out to each other regardless of country or mother tongue. In my humble opinion there is both the need to develop 'literatures' in our mother tongues --as Alex also suggested-- but we also need to stop seeing the English language as the de facto enemy, "the language of conquest, the influx/of the language of hard nouns,/the language of metal," (Atwood).
In the same way that it is expensive, complicated and mostly impractical to host fully multilingual international conferences (maybe only the European Parliament and the United Nations have the infrastructure to make this viable) I honestly don't see a time in which it is not necessary to engage in scholarly communications in English at some point or another. Expecting DH to become completely multilingual (for example in a conference in Nebraska) seems very unlikely. If they don't come to us, we might need to go to them. If they ignore us, we need to make ourselves unavoidable, unmissable, ubiquituous.
Just my two cents...
All the best
Ernesto
-
Alex Gil -
Bordalejo, Barbara -
Craig Bellamy -
Daniel O'Donnell -
David Golumbia -
Domenico Fiormonte -
Ernesto Priego -
Frédéric Clavert -
igalina -
O'Donnell, Dan