Hi all,
I had somebody ask me the other day about whether there should be any special advice for posting to a list like this--"like this" in the sense of explicitly multicultural, very conscious of multilingual issues, and so on.
We've obviously been discussing aspects of language use in a variety of contexts on the list, but I don't think we've had a metadiscussion about how we should post to this list--things to keep in mind, to be careful of, and so on.
Here's some of the things I suggested. What do others think?
1) Be really careful about humour, especially humour that could be misread as being dismissive, insulting, or mockery. One reason for this is because, as is well known, email doesn't convey tone well at all. But in the case of this specific list, we are also dealing with a variety of different academic cultures--what comes across as normal bantering in a more free-rolling academic culture may appear to be extremely aggressive in another.
2) Be careful about allusions to pop culture, and national history and politics. Many people may not get them. But more importantly, allusions and inside jokes shared among a small group of people can quickly create a sense of exclusion among those who don't know the references being made.
3) Since this is an academic list, we will find ourselves disagreeing with each other, attempting to correct or improve each other's ideas, and so on. In keeping with (1), be careful about how you phrase these disagreements: again, what may seem like relatively light criticism in one academic culture may seem crushing in another; and especially if there are language issues involved, it can be difficult to clear things up. This doesn't mean that we can't criticise each other's ideas, but rather that we should always try to phrase this disagreement as constructively and supportively as possible.
4) Generally, try to write in short sentences and using common words (this is true, BTW, of all languages on the list): you are being read by people who are not as strong in your language as you are.
5) Always try to provide context for people: use more links to external sites than you might normally (e.g. to explain ideas and give examples.
If people think this is good and especially have additional ideas, we could perhaps publish a page on etiquette and tips for emailing in an international context?
-dan
I support all of these points. Well put Dan. I think we should also include some of this language into our by-laws under a 'communications' rubric.
Best, A.
On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 5:07 PM, Daniel O'Donnell daniel.odonnell@uleth.cawrote:
Hi all,
I had somebody ask me the other day about whether there should be any special advice for posting to a list like this--"like this" in the sense of explicitly multicultural, very conscious of multilingual issues, and so on.
We've obviously been discussing aspects of language use in a variety of contexts on the list, but I don't think we've had a metadiscussion about how we should post to this list--things to keep in mind, to be careful of, and so on.
Here's some of the things I suggested. What do others think?
- Be really careful about humour, especially humour that could be misread
as being dismissive, insulting, or mockery. One reason for this is because, as is well known, email doesn't convey tone well at all. But in the case of this specific list, we are also dealing with a variety of different academic cultures--what comes across as normal bantering in a more free-rolling academic culture may appear to be extremely aggressive in another.
- Be careful about allusions to pop culture, and national history and
politics. Many people may not get them. But more importantly, allusions and inside jokes shared among a small group of people can quickly create a sense of exclusion among those who don't know the references being made.
- Since this is an academic list, we will find ourselves disagreeing with
each other, attempting to correct or improve each other's ideas, and so on. In keeping with (1), be careful about how you phrase these disagreements: again, what may seem like relatively light criticism in one academic culture may seem crushing in another; and especially if there are language issues involved, it can be difficult to clear things up. This doesn't mean that we can't criticise each other's ideas, but rather that we should always try to phrase this disagreement as constructively and supportively as possible.
- Generally, try to write in short sentences and using common words (this
is true, BTW, of all languages on the list): you are being read by people who are not as strong in your language as you are.
- Always try to provide context for people: use more links to external
sites than you might normally (e.g. to explain ideas and give examples.
If people think this is good and especially have additional ideas, we could perhaps publish a page on etiquette and tips for emailing in an international context?
-dan
--
Daniel Paul O'Donnell Professor of English University of Lethbridge Lethbridge AB T1K 3M4 Canada
+1 403 393-2539
______________________________**_________________ globaloutlookdh-l mailing list globaloutlookdh-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/**mailman/listinfo/**globaloutlookdh-lhttp://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/globaloutlookdh-l
You are currently subscribed to this list in NON-digest mode. This means you receive every message as it is posted. If this represents too much traffic, you can also subscribe in DIGEST mode. This sends out a single email once a day containing the entire day's postings. To change your settings go to http://listserv.uleth.ca/** mailman/options/**globaloutlookdh-lhttp://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/options/globaloutlookdh-lYou can request a password reminder from this page if you have forgotten yours.
Actually, it might also be worthwhile thinking of these from the reception side as well, since each point has a flipside, e.g.:
1) Things that seem uber-aggressive to you, might not be meant that way. It could also be a cultural difference (I don't think that lets us off remembering to be careful a la point 1 below, but it is worth remembering).
2) Be prepared to tolerate honest ignorance: I know I've committed a number of faux pas because I haven't known any better and, as a result, I've taken to asking people (e.g. about correct forms of address, and the like). I'm grateful to the people who have helped me out!
I think the greater burden is always on the speaker than the listener when it comes to these kinds of things, but it might do no harm to think about how to be a successful listener as well.
On 13-05-15 03:10 PM, Alex Gil wrote:
I support all of these points. Well put Dan. I think we should also include some of this language into our by-laws under a 'communications' rubric.
Best, A.
On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 5:07 PM, Daniel O'Donnell <daniel.odonnell@uleth.ca mailto:daniel.odonnell@uleth.ca> wrote:
Hi all, I had somebody ask me the other day about whether there should be any special advice for posting to a list like this--"like this" in the sense of explicitly multicultural, very conscious of multilingual issues, and so on. We've obviously been discussing aspects of language use in a variety of contexts on the list, but I don't think we've had a metadiscussion about how we should post to this list--things to keep in mind, to be careful of, and so on. Here's some of the things I suggested. What do others think? 1) Be really careful about humour, especially humour that could be misread as being dismissive, insulting, or mockery. One reason for this is because, as is well known, email doesn't convey tone well at all. But in the case of this specific list, we are also dealing with a variety of different academic cultures--what comes across as normal bantering in a more free-rolling academic culture may appear to be extremely aggressive in another. 2) Be careful about allusions to pop culture, and national history and politics. Many people may not get them. But more importantly, allusions and inside jokes shared among a small group of people can quickly create a sense of exclusion among those who don't know the references being made. 3) Since this is an academic list, we will find ourselves disagreeing with each other, attempting to correct or improve each other's ideas, and so on. In keeping with (1), be careful about how you phrase these disagreements: again, what may seem like relatively light criticism in one academic culture may seem crushing in another; and especially if there are language issues involved, it can be difficult to clear things up. This doesn't mean that we can't criticise each other's ideas, but rather that we should always try to phrase this disagreement as constructively and supportively as possible. 4) Generally, try to write in short sentences and using common words (this is true, BTW, of all languages on the list): you are being read by people who are not as strong in your language as you are. 5) Always try to provide context for people: use more links to external sites than you might normally (e.g. to explain ideas and give examples. If people think this is good and especially have additional ideas, we could perhaps publish a page on etiquette and tips for emailing in an international context? -dan -- --- Daniel Paul O'Donnell Professor of English University of Lethbridge Lethbridge AB T1K 3M4 Canada +1 403 393-2539 <tel:%2B1%20403%20393-2539> _______________________________________________ globaloutlookdh-l mailing list globaloutlookdh-l@uleth.ca <mailto:globaloutlookdh-l@uleth.ca> http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/globaloutlookdh-l You are currently subscribed to this list in NON-digest mode. This means you receive every message as it is posted. If this represents too much traffic, you can also subscribe in DIGEST mode. This sends out a single email once a day containing the entire day's postings. To change your settings go to http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/options/globaloutlookdh-l You can request a password reminder from this page if you have forgotten yours.
globaloutlookdh-l mailing list globaloutlookdh-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/globaloutlookdh-l
You are currently subscribed to this list in NON-digest mode. This means you receive every message as it is posted.
If this represents too much traffic, you can also subscribe in DIGEST mode. This sends out a single email once a day containing the entire day's postings. To change your settings go to http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/options/globaloutlookdh-l You can request a password reminder from this page if you have forgotten yours.
Another very valid point, and again something I think a lot of us could benefit from if formalised into a single resource.
On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 10:55 PM, Daniel O'Donnell <daniel.odonnell@uleth.ca
wrote:
Actually, it might also be worthwhile thinking of these from the reception side as well, since each point has a flipside, e.g.:
- Things that seem uber-aggressive to you, might not be meant that way.
It could also be a cultural difference (I don't think that lets us off remembering to be careful a la point 1 below, but it is worth remembering).
- Be prepared to tolerate honest ignorance: I know I've committed a
number of faux pas because I haven't known any better and, as a result, I've taken to asking people (e.g. about correct forms of address, and the like). I'm grateful to the people who have helped me out!
I think the greater burden is always on the speaker than the listener when it comes to these kinds of things, but it might do no harm to think about how to be a successful listener as well.
On 13-05-15 03:10 PM, Alex Gil wrote:
I support all of these points. Well put Dan. I think we should also include some of this language into our by-laws under a 'communications' rubric.
Best, A.
On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 5:07 PM, Daniel O'Donnell < daniel.odonnell@uleth.ca> wrote:
Hi all,
I had somebody ask me the other day about whether there should be any special advice for posting to a list like this--"like this" in the sense of explicitly multicultural, very conscious of multilingual issues, and so on.
We've obviously been discussing aspects of language use in a variety of contexts on the list, but I don't think we've had a metadiscussion about how we should post to this list--things to keep in mind, to be careful of, and so on.
Here's some of the things I suggested. What do others think?
- Be really careful about humour, especially humour that could be
misread as being dismissive, insulting, or mockery. One reason for this is because, as is well known, email doesn't convey tone well at all. But in the case of this specific list, we are also dealing with a variety of different academic cultures--what comes across as normal bantering in a more free-rolling academic culture may appear to be extremely aggressive in another.
- Be careful about allusions to pop culture, and national history and
politics. Many people may not get them. But more importantly, allusions and inside jokes shared among a small group of people can quickly create a sense of exclusion among those who don't know the references being made.
- Since this is an academic list, we will find ourselves disagreeing
with each other, attempting to correct or improve each other's ideas, and so on. In keeping with (1), be careful about how you phrase these disagreements: again, what may seem like relatively light criticism in one academic culture may seem crushing in another; and especially if there are language issues involved, it can be difficult to clear things up. This doesn't mean that we can't criticise each other's ideas, but rather that we should always try to phrase this disagreement as constructively and supportively as possible.
- Generally, try to write in short sentences and using common words
(this is true, BTW, of all languages on the list): you are being read by people who are not as strong in your language as you are.
- Always try to provide context for people: use more links to external
sites than you might normally (e.g. to explain ideas and give examples.
If people think this is good and especially have additional ideas, we could perhaps publish a page on etiquette and tips for emailing in an international context?
-dan
--
Daniel Paul O'Donnell Professor of English University of Lethbridge Lethbridge AB T1K 3M4 Canada
+1 403 393-2539
globaloutlookdh-l mailing list globaloutlookdh-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/globaloutlookdh-l
You are currently subscribed to this list in NON-digest mode. This means you receive every message as it is posted. If this represents too much traffic, you can also subscribe in DIGEST mode. This sends out a single email once a day containing the entire day's postings. To change your settings go to http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/options/globaloutlookdh-l You can request a password reminder from this page if you have forgotten yours.
globaloutlookdh-l mailing listglobaloutlookdh-l@uleth.cahttp://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/globaloutlookdh-l
You are currently subscribed to this list in NON-digest mode. This means you receive every message as it is posted.
If this represents too much traffic, you can also subscribe in DIGEST mode. This sends out a single email once a day containing the entire day's postings. To change your settings go to http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/options/globaloutlookdh-l You can request a password reminder from this page if you have forgotten yours.
--
Daniel Paul O'Donnell Professor of English University of Lethbridge Lethbridge AB T1K 3M4 Canada +1 403 393-2539
globaloutlookdh-l mailing list globaloutlookdh-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/globaloutlookdh-l
You are currently subscribed to this list in NON-digest mode. This means you receive every message as it is posted.
If this represents too much traffic, you can also subscribe in DIGEST mode. This sends out a single email once a day containing the entire day's postings. To change your settings go to http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/options/globaloutlookdh-l You can request a password reminder from this page if you have forgotten yours.
Hi all,
I can see a joke in this; all this talk about Irish and Canadians and Dutch.
But I am not sure that this is an international context, the international is something else and this is just listserv.
Point being, always look for what unites, not what divides, it is a much more fruitful journey.
An epistemic community is a nice way to travel.
Kind regards,
Craig
Dear GO DH,
I am not sure that these particular projects had the explicit intent to expound ‘class, gender, race’, at least as seen through a blustery politics-in-the-wild lens. But still, apart from their significant scholarly contributions, they do put the rest the accusation that computing in the humanities is at odds with those scholars that can only engage with these subjects through the singular authority of the academic monologue (and thus claim to have a monopoly over the interpretation of ”class, gender, race”) http://www.craigbellamy.net/2013/06/16/10-favorite/
Kind regards,
Craig
Thank you, Dan, for pointing this out. You are completely right that we also have to make allowances from the receiving side. I know that I have a short fuse when it comes to something *I perceive* as being patronizing or in any way demeaning. I should work on this.
Cheers,
BB On 15 May 2013, at 17:55, Daniel O'Donnell wrote:
Actually, it might also be worthwhile thinking of these from the reception side as well, since each point has a flipside, e.g.:
1) Things that seem uber-aggressive to you, might not be meant that way. It could also be a cultural difference (I don't think that lets us off remembering to be careful a la point 1 below, but it is worth remembering).
2) Be prepared to tolerate honest ignorance: I know I've committed a number of faux pas because I haven't known any better and, as a result, I've taken to asking people (e.g. about correct forms of address, and the like). I'm grateful to the people who have helped me out!
I think the greater burden is always on the speaker than the listener when it comes to these kinds of things, but it might do no harm to think about how to be a successful listener as well.
On 13-05-15 03:10 PM, Alex Gil wrote: I support all of these points. Well put Dan. I think we should also include some of this language into our by-laws under a 'communications' rubric.
Best, A.
On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 5:07 PM, Daniel O'Donnell <daniel.odonnell@uleth.camailto:daniel.odonnell@uleth.ca> wrote: Hi all,
I had somebody ask me the other day about whether there should be any special advice for posting to a list like this--"like this" in the sense of explicitly multicultural, very conscious of multilingual issues, and so on.
We've obviously been discussing aspects of language use in a variety of contexts on the list, but I don't think we've had a metadiscussion about how we should post to this list--things to keep in mind, to be careful of, and so on.
Here's some of the things I suggested. What do others think?
1) Be really careful about humour, especially humour that could be misread as being dismissive, insulting, or mockery. One reason for this is because, as is well known, email doesn't convey tone well at all. But in the case of this specific list, we are also dealing with a variety of different academic cultures--what comes across as normal bantering in a more free-rolling academic culture may appear to be extremely aggressive in another.
2) Be careful about allusions to pop culture, and national history and politics. Many people may not get them. But more importantly, allusions and inside jokes shared among a small group of people can quickly create a sense of exclusion among those who don't know the references being made.
3) Since this is an academic list, we will find ourselves disagreeing with each other, attempting to correct or improve each other's ideas, and so on. In keeping with (1), be careful about how you phrase these disagreements: again, what may seem like relatively light criticism in one academic culture may seem crushing in another; and especially if there are language issues involved, it can be difficult to clear things up. This doesn't mean that we can't criticise each other's ideas, but rather that we should always try to phrase this disagreement as constructively and supportively as possible.
4) Generally, try to write in short sentences and using common words (this is true, BTW, of all languages on the list): you are being read by people who are not as strong in your language as you are.
5) Always try to provide context for people: use more links to external sites than you might normally (e.g. to explain ideas and give examples.
If people think this is good and especially have additional ideas, we could perhaps publish a page on etiquette and tips for emailing in an international context?
-dan
-- --- Daniel Paul O'Donnell Professor of English University of Lethbridge Lethbridge AB T1K 3M4 Canada
+1 403 393-2539tel:%2B1%20403%20393-2539
_______________________________________________ globaloutlookdh-l mailing list globaloutlookdh-l@uleth.camailto:globaloutlookdh-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/globaloutlookdh-l
You are currently subscribed to this list in NON-digest mode. This means you receive every message as it is posted. If this represents too much traffic, you can also subscribe in DIGEST mode. This sends out a single email once a day containing the entire day's postings. To change your settings go to http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/options/globaloutlookdh-l You can request a password reminder from this page if you have forgotten yours.
_______________________________________________ globaloutlookdh-l mailing list globaloutlookdh-l@uleth.camailto:globaloutlookdh-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/globaloutlookdh-l
You are currently subscribed to this list in NON-digest mode. This means you receive every message as it is posted.
If this represents too much traffic, you can also subscribe in DIGEST mode. This sends out a single email once a day containing the entire day's postings. To change your settings go to http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/options/globaloutlookdh-l You can request a password reminder from this page if you have forgotten yours.
-- --- Daniel Paul O'Donnell Professor of English University of Lethbridge Lethbridge AB T1K 3M4 Canada
+1 403 393-2539
_______________________________________________ globaloutlookdh-l mailing list globaloutlookdh-l@uleth.camailto:globaloutlookdh-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/globaloutlookdh-l
You are currently subscribed to this list in NON-digest mode. This means you receive every message as it is posted.
If this represents too much traffic, you can also subscribe in DIGEST mode. This sends out a single email once a day containing the entire day's postings. To change your settings go to http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/options/globaloutlookdh-l You can request a password reminder from this page if you have forgotten yours.
Thank you everyone. All excellent points.
Ernesto
On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 3:05 PM, Bordalejo, Barbara bab995@mail.usask.cawrote:
Thank you, Dan, for pointing this out. You are completely right that we also have to make allowances from the receiving side. I know that I have a short fuse when it comes to something *I perceive* as being patronizing or in any way demeaning. I should work on this.
Cheers,
BB
On 15 May 2013, at 17:55, Daniel O'Donnell wrote:
Actually, it might also be worthwhile thinking of these from the reception side as well, since each point has a flipside, e.g.:
- Things that seem uber-aggressive to you, might not be meant that way.
It could also be a cultural difference (I don't think that lets us off remembering to be careful a la point 1 below, but it is worth remembering).
- Be prepared to tolerate honest ignorance: I know I've committed a
number of faux pas because I haven't known any better and, as a result, I've taken to asking people (e.g. about correct forms of address, and the like). I'm grateful to the people who have helped me out!
I think the greater burden is always on the speaker than the listener when it comes to these kinds of things, but it might do no harm to think about how to be a successful listener as well.
On 13-05-15 03:10 PM, Alex Gil wrote:
I support all of these points. Well put Dan. I think we should also include some of this language into our by-laws under a 'communications' rubric.
Best, A.
On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 5:07 PM, Daniel O'Donnell < daniel.odonnell@uleth.ca> wrote:
Hi all,
I had somebody ask me the other day about whether there should be any special advice for posting to a list like this--"like this" in the sense of explicitly multicultural, very conscious of multilingual issues, and so on.
We've obviously been discussing aspects of language use in a variety of contexts on the list, but I don't think we've had a metadiscussion about how we should post to this list--things to keep in mind, to be careful of, and so on.
Here's some of the things I suggested. What do others think?
- Be really careful about humour, especially humour that could be
misread as being dismissive, insulting, or mockery. One reason for this is because, as is well known, email doesn't convey tone well at all. But in the case of this specific list, we are also dealing with a variety of different academic cultures--what comes across as normal bantering in a more free-rolling academic culture may appear to be extremely aggressive in another.
- Be careful about allusions to pop culture, and national history and
politics. Many people may not get them. But more importantly, allusions and inside jokes shared among a small group of people can quickly create a sense of exclusion among those who don't know the references being made.
- Since this is an academic list, we will find ourselves disagreeing
with each other, attempting to correct or improve each other's ideas, and so on. In keeping with (1), be careful about how you phrase these disagreements: again, what may seem like relatively light criticism in one academic culture may seem crushing in another; and especially if there are language issues involved, it can be difficult to clear things up. This doesn't mean that we can't criticise each other's ideas, but rather that we should always try to phrase this disagreement as constructively and supportively as possible.
- Generally, try to write in short sentences and using common words
(this is true, BTW, of all languages on the list): you are being read by people who are not as strong in your language as you are.
- Always try to provide context for people: use more links to external
sites than you might normally (e.g. to explain ideas and give examples.
If people think this is good and especially have additional ideas, we could perhaps publish a page on etiquette and tips for emailing in an international context?
-dan
--
Daniel Paul O'Donnell Professor of English University of Lethbridge Lethbridge AB T1K 3M4 Canada
+1 403 393-2539
globaloutlookdh-l mailing list globaloutlookdh-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/globaloutlookdh-l
You are currently subscribed to this list in NON-digest mode. This means you receive every message as it is posted. If this represents too much traffic, you can also subscribe in DIGEST mode. This sends out a single email once a day containing the entire day's postings. To change your settings go to http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/options/globaloutlookdh-l You can request a password reminder from this page if you have forgotten yours.
globaloutlookdh-l mailing listglobaloutlookdh-l@uleth.cahttp://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/globaloutlookdh-l
You are currently subscribed to this list in NON-digest mode. This means you receive every message as it is posted.
If this represents too much traffic, you can also subscribe in DIGEST mode. This sends out a single email once a day containing the entire day's postings. To change your settings go to http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/options/globaloutlookdh-l You can request a password reminder from this page if you have forgotten yours.
--
Daniel Paul O'Donnell Professor of English University of Lethbridge Lethbridge AB T1K 3M4 Canada +1 403 393-2539
globaloutlookdh-l mailing list globaloutlookdh-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/globaloutlookdh-l
You are currently subscribed to this list in NON-digest mode. This means you receive every message as it is posted.
If this represents too much traffic, you can also subscribe in DIGEST mode. This sends out a single email once a day containing the entire day's postings. To change your settings go to http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/options/globaloutlookdh-l You can request a password reminder from this page if you have forgotten yours.
globaloutlookdh-l mailing list globaloutlookdh-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/globaloutlookdh-l
You are currently subscribed to this list in NON-digest mode. This means you receive every message as it is posted.
If this represents too much traffic, you can also subscribe in DIGEST mode. This sends out a single email once a day containing the entire day's postings. To change your settings go to http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/options/globaloutlookdh-l You can request a password reminder from this page if you have forgotten yours.
Dear all,
I just want to weigh in here behind Professor O'Donnell, and lend my support to the suggested page on etiquette and tips for emailing in an international context. This is an issue that I often struggle with, as in an Irish context, scholarly debates tend to be pretty forthright. I've often been challenged by colleagues, and have challenged colleagues, in a fashion that, while to us seems normal, may, to another culture, be negatively received. I sometimes find myself wondering if my argument is coming across as too strong or forceful, or conversely, too timid. Of course, this issue is amplified when different languages come into play.
Speaking as a postgraduate who is still feeling their way through a multicultural discipline, this is something from which I would personally benefit, and I'm sure that many other young scholars would feel the same.
Sincerest thanks, James
On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 10:07 PM, Daniel O'Donnell <daniel.odonnell@uleth.ca
wrote:
Hi all,
I had somebody ask me the other day about whether there should be any special advice for posting to a list like this--"like this" in the sense of explicitly multicultural, very conscious of multilingual issues, and so on.
We've obviously been discussing aspects of language use in a variety of contexts on the list, but I don't think we've had a metadiscussion about how we should post to this list--things to keep in mind, to be careful of, and so on.
Here's some of the things I suggested. What do others think?
- Be really careful about humour, especially humour that could be misread
as being dismissive, insulting, or mockery. One reason for this is because, as is well known, email doesn't convey tone well at all. But in the case of this specific list, we are also dealing with a variety of different academic cultures--what comes across as normal bantering in a more free-rolling academic culture may appear to be extremely aggressive in another.
- Be careful about allusions to pop culture, and national history and
politics. Many people may not get them. But more importantly, allusions and inside jokes shared among a small group of people can quickly create a sense of exclusion among those who don't know the references being made.
- Since this is an academic list, we will find ourselves disagreeing with
each other, attempting to correct or improve each other's ideas, and so on. In keeping with (1), be careful about how you phrase these disagreements: again, what may seem like relatively light criticism in one academic culture may seem crushing in another; and especially if there are language issues involved, it can be difficult to clear things up. This doesn't mean that we can't criticise each other's ideas, but rather that we should always try to phrase this disagreement as constructively and supportively as possible.
- Generally, try to write in short sentences and using common words (this
is true, BTW, of all languages on the list): you are being read by people who are not as strong in your language as you are.
- Always try to provide context for people: use more links to external
sites than you might normally (e.g. to explain ideas and give examples.
If people think this is good and especially have additional ideas, we could perhaps publish a page on etiquette and tips for emailing in an international context?
-dan
--
Daniel Paul O'Donnell Professor of English University of Lethbridge Lethbridge AB T1K 3M4 Canada
+1 403 393-2539
______________________________**_________________ globaloutlookdh-l mailing list globaloutlookdh-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/**mailman/listinfo/**globaloutlookdh-lhttp://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/globaloutlookdh-l
You are currently subscribed to this list in NON-digest mode. This means you receive every message as it is posted. If this represents too much traffic, you can also subscribe in DIGEST mode. This sends out a single email once a day containing the entire day's postings. To change your settings go to http://listserv.uleth.ca/** mailman/options/**globaloutlookdh-lhttp://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/options/globaloutlookdh-lYou can request a password reminder from this page if you have forgotten yours.
I won't say I was quite thinking of the Irish, but when I moved back to Canada after many years in the States, I had to rein things in a little--without even realising I'd got more... well let's call it forthright. My wife had a similarly difficult time adjusting the bluntness she'd learned in Dutch academia to the Canadian context as well.
Of course it is also easy to stereotype. But I do think there are often disciplinary, national, and perhaps even regional cultures to how academic debate is carried on.
On 13-05-15 03:16 PM, James O'Sullivan wrote:
Dear all,
I just want to weigh in here behind Professor O'Donnell, and lend my support to the suggested page on etiquette and tips for emailing in an international context. This is an issue that I often struggle with, as in an Irish context, scholarly debates tend to be pretty forthright. I've often been challenged by colleagues, and have challenged colleagues, in a fashion that, while to us seems normal, may, to another culture, be negatively received. I sometimes find myself wondering if my argument is coming across as too strong or forceful, or conversely, too timid. Of course, this issue is amplified when different languages come into play.
Speaking as a postgraduate who is still feeling their way through a multicultural discipline, this is something from which I would personally benefit, and I'm sure that many other young scholars would feel the same.
Sincerest thanks, James
On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 10:07 PM, Daniel O'Donnell <daniel.odonnell@uleth.ca mailto:daniel.odonnell@uleth.ca> wrote:
Hi all, I had somebody ask me the other day about whether there should be any special advice for posting to a list like this--"like this" in the sense of explicitly multicultural, very conscious of multilingual issues, and so on. We've obviously been discussing aspects of language use in a variety of contexts on the list, but I don't think we've had a metadiscussion about how we should post to this list--things to keep in mind, to be careful of, and so on. Here's some of the things I suggested. What do others think? 1) Be really careful about humour, especially humour that could be misread as being dismissive, insulting, or mockery. One reason for this is because, as is well known, email doesn't convey tone well at all. But in the case of this specific list, we are also dealing with a variety of different academic cultures--what comes across as normal bantering in a more free-rolling academic culture may appear to be extremely aggressive in another. 2) Be careful about allusions to pop culture, and national history and politics. Many people may not get them. But more importantly, allusions and inside jokes shared among a small group of people can quickly create a sense of exclusion among those who don't know the references being made. 3) Since this is an academic list, we will find ourselves disagreeing with each other, attempting to correct or improve each other's ideas, and so on. In keeping with (1), be careful about how you phrase these disagreements: again, what may seem like relatively light criticism in one academic culture may seem crushing in another; and especially if there are language issues involved, it can be difficult to clear things up. This doesn't mean that we can't criticise each other's ideas, but rather that we should always try to phrase this disagreement as constructively and supportively as possible. 4) Generally, try to write in short sentences and using common words (this is true, BTW, of all languages on the list): you are being read by people who are not as strong in your language as you are. 5) Always try to provide context for people: use more links to external sites than you might normally (e.g. to explain ideas and give examples. If people think this is good and especially have additional ideas, we could perhaps publish a page on etiquette and tips for emailing in an international context? -dan -- --- Daniel Paul O'Donnell Professor of English University of Lethbridge Lethbridge AB T1K 3M4 Canada +1 403 393-2539 <tel:%2B1%20403%20393-2539> _______________________________________________ globaloutlookdh-l mailing list globaloutlookdh-l@uleth.ca <mailto:globaloutlookdh-l@uleth.ca> http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/globaloutlookdh-l You are currently subscribed to this list in NON-digest mode. This means you receive every message as it is posted. If this represents too much traffic, you can also subscribe in DIGEST mode. This sends out a single email once a day containing the entire day's postings. To change your settings go to http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/options/globaloutlookdh-l You can request a password reminder from this page if you have forgotten yours.-- *James O'Sullivan * @jamescosullivan http://twitter.com/jamescosullivan** Web: josullivan.org http://josullivan.org
Twitter: http://twitter.com/jamescosullivan http://twitter.com/#%21/jamescosullivan LinkedIn: http://linkedin.com/in/jameschristopherosullivan http://www.linkedin.com/in/jameschristopherosullivan Facebook: http://facebook.com/jameschristopherosullivan http://www.facebook.com/jameschristopherosullivan
New Binary Press: http://newbinarypress.com/Bookstore.html OpenDAHT: http://opendaht.org/ Submit to /The Weary Blues/: http://thewearyblues.org/submit.html
globaloutlookdh-l mailing list globaloutlookdh-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/globaloutlookdh-l
You are currently subscribed to this list in NON-digest mode. This means you receive every message as it is posted.
If this represents too much traffic, you can also subscribe in DIGEST mode. This sends out a single email once a day containing the entire day's postings. To change your settings go to http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/options/globaloutlookdh-l You can request a password reminder from this page if you have forgotten yours.
"I do think there are often disciplinary, national, and perhaps even regional cultures to how academic debate is carried on" - I couldn't agree more. A great idea for this initiative.
On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 10:40 PM, Daniel O'Donnell <daniel.odonnell@uleth.ca
wrote:
I won't say I was quite thinking of the Irish, but when I moved back to Canada after many years in the States, I had to rein things in a little--without even realising I'd got more... well let's call it forthright. My wife had a similarly difficult time adjusting the bluntness she'd learned in Dutch academia to the Canadian context as well.
Of course it is also easy to stereotype. But I do think there are often disciplinary, national, and perhaps even regional cultures to how academic debate is carried on.
On 13-05-15 03:16 PM, James O'Sullivan wrote:
Dear all,
I just want to weigh in here behind Professor O'Donnell, and lend my support to the suggested page on etiquette and tips for emailing in an international context. This is an issue that I often struggle with, as in an Irish context, scholarly debates tend to be pretty forthright. I've often been challenged by colleagues, and have challenged colleagues, in a fashion that, while to us seems normal, may, to another culture, be negatively received. I sometimes find myself wondering if my argument is coming across as too strong or forceful, or conversely, too timid. Of course, this issue is amplified when different languages come into play.
Speaking as a postgraduate who is still feeling their way through a multicultural discipline, this is something from which I would personally benefit, and I'm sure that many other young scholars would feel the same.
Sincerest thanks, James
On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 10:07 PM, Daniel O'Donnell < daniel.odonnell@uleth.ca> wrote:
Hi all,
I had somebody ask me the other day about whether there should be any special advice for posting to a list like this--"like this" in the sense of explicitly multicultural, very conscious of multilingual issues, and so on.
We've obviously been discussing aspects of language use in a variety of contexts on the list, but I don't think we've had a metadiscussion about how we should post to this list--things to keep in mind, to be careful of, and so on.
Here's some of the things I suggested. What do others think?
- Be really careful about humour, especially humour that could be
misread as being dismissive, insulting, or mockery. One reason for this is because, as is well known, email doesn't convey tone well at all. But in the case of this specific list, we are also dealing with a variety of different academic cultures--what comes across as normal bantering in a more free-rolling academic culture may appear to be extremely aggressive in another.
- Be careful about allusions to pop culture, and national history and
politics. Many people may not get them. But more importantly, allusions and inside jokes shared among a small group of people can quickly create a sense of exclusion among those who don't know the references being made.
- Since this is an academic list, we will find ourselves disagreeing
with each other, attempting to correct or improve each other's ideas, and so on. In keeping with (1), be careful about how you phrase these disagreements: again, what may seem like relatively light criticism in one academic culture may seem crushing in another; and especially if there are language issues involved, it can be difficult to clear things up. This doesn't mean that we can't criticise each other's ideas, but rather that we should always try to phrase this disagreement as constructively and supportively as possible.
- Generally, try to write in short sentences and using common words
(this is true, BTW, of all languages on the list): you are being read by people who are not as strong in your language as you are.
- Always try to provide context for people: use more links to external
sites than you might normally (e.g. to explain ideas and give examples.
If people think this is good and especially have additional ideas, we could perhaps publish a page on etiquette and tips for emailing in an international context?
-dan
--
Daniel Paul O'Donnell Professor of English University of Lethbridge Lethbridge AB T1K 3M4 Canada
+1 403 393-2539
globaloutlookdh-l mailing list globaloutlookdh-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/globaloutlookdh-l
You are currently subscribed to this list in NON-digest mode. This means you receive every message as it is posted. If this represents too much traffic, you can also subscribe in DIGEST mode. This sends out a single email once a day containing the entire day's postings. To change your settings go to http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/options/globaloutlookdh-l You can request a password reminder from this page if you have forgotten yours.
-- *James O'Sullivan * @jamescosullivan http://twitter.com/jamescosullivan** Web: josullivan.org
Twitter: http://twitter.com/jamescosullivanhttp://twitter.com/#%21/jamescosullivan LinkedIn: http://linkedin.com/in/jameschristopherosullivanhttp://www.linkedin.com/in/jameschristopherosullivan Facebook: http://facebook.com/jameschristopherosullivanhttp://www.facebook.com/jameschristopherosullivan
New Binary Press: http://newbinarypress.com/Bookstore.html OpenDAHT: http://opendaht.org/ Submit to *The Weary Blues*: http://thewearyblues.org/submit.html
globaloutlookdh-l mailing listglobaloutlookdh-l@uleth.cahttp://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/globaloutlookdh-l
You are currently subscribed to this list in NON-digest mode. This means you receive every message as it is posted.
If this represents too much traffic, you can also subscribe in DIGEST mode. This sends out a single email once a day containing the entire day's postings. To change your settings go to http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/options/globaloutlookdh-l You can request a password reminder from this page if you have forgotten yours.
--
Daniel Paul O'Donnell Professor of English University of Lethbridge Lethbridge AB T1K 3M4 Canada +1 403 393-2539
globaloutlookdh-l mailing list globaloutlookdh-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/globaloutlookdh-l
You are currently subscribed to this list in NON-digest mode. This means you receive every message as it is posted.
If this represents too much traffic, you can also subscribe in DIGEST mode. This sends out a single email once a day containing the entire day's postings. To change your settings go to http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/options/globaloutlookdh-l You can request a password reminder from this page if you have forgotten yours.
I agree with your points, Dan. And also agree with Alex suggestion.
e
2013/5/15 James O'Sullivan josullivan.c@gmail.com
"I do think there are often disciplinary, national, and perhaps even regional cultures to how academic debate is carried on" - I couldn't agree more. A great idea for this initiative.
On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 10:40 PM, Daniel O'Donnell < daniel.odonnell@uleth.ca> wrote:
I won't say I was quite thinking of the Irish, but when I moved back to Canada after many years in the States, I had to rein things in a little--without even realising I'd got more... well let's call it forthright. My wife had a similarly difficult time adjusting the bluntness she'd learned in Dutch academia to the Canadian context as well.
Of course it is also easy to stereotype. But I do think there are often disciplinary, national, and perhaps even regional cultures to how academic debate is carried on.
On 13-05-15 03:16 PM, James O'Sullivan wrote:
Dear all,
I just want to weigh in here behind Professor O'Donnell, and lend my support to the suggested page on etiquette and tips for emailing in an international context. This is an issue that I often struggle with, as in an Irish context, scholarly debates tend to be pretty forthright. I've often been challenged by colleagues, and have challenged colleagues, in a fashion that, while to us seems normal, may, to another culture, be negatively received. I sometimes find myself wondering if my argument is coming across as too strong or forceful, or conversely, too timid. Of course, this issue is amplified when different languages come into play.
Speaking as a postgraduate who is still feeling their way through a multicultural discipline, this is something from which I would personally benefit, and I'm sure that many other young scholars would feel the same.
Sincerest thanks, James
On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 10:07 PM, Daniel O'Donnell < daniel.odonnell@uleth.ca> wrote:
Hi all,
I had somebody ask me the other day about whether there should be any special advice for posting to a list like this--"like this" in the sense of explicitly multicultural, very conscious of multilingual issues, and so on.
We've obviously been discussing aspects of language use in a variety of contexts on the list, but I don't think we've had a metadiscussion about how we should post to this list--things to keep in mind, to be careful of, and so on.
Here's some of the things I suggested. What do others think?
- Be really careful about humour, especially humour that could be
misread as being dismissive, insulting, or mockery. One reason for this is because, as is well known, email doesn't convey tone well at all. But in the case of this specific list, we are also dealing with a variety of different academic cultures--what comes across as normal bantering in a more free-rolling academic culture may appear to be extremely aggressive in another.
- Be careful about allusions to pop culture, and national history and
politics. Many people may not get them. But more importantly, allusions and inside jokes shared among a small group of people can quickly create a sense of exclusion among those who don't know the references being made.
- Since this is an academic list, we will find ourselves disagreeing
with each other, attempting to correct or improve each other's ideas, and so on. In keeping with (1), be careful about how you phrase these disagreements: again, what may seem like relatively light criticism in one academic culture may seem crushing in another; and especially if there are language issues involved, it can be difficult to clear things up. This doesn't mean that we can't criticise each other's ideas, but rather that we should always try to phrase this disagreement as constructively and supportively as possible.
- Generally, try to write in short sentences and using common words
(this is true, BTW, of all languages on the list): you are being read by people who are not as strong in your language as you are.
- Always try to provide context for people: use more links to external
sites than you might normally (e.g. to explain ideas and give examples.
If people think this is good and especially have additional ideas, we could perhaps publish a page on etiquette and tips for emailing in an international context?
-dan
--
Daniel Paul O'Donnell Professor of English University of Lethbridge Lethbridge AB T1K 3M4 Canada
+1 403 393-2539
globaloutlookdh-l mailing list globaloutlookdh-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/globaloutlookdh-l
You are currently subscribed to this list in NON-digest mode. This means you receive every message as it is posted. If this represents too much traffic, you can also subscribe in DIGEST mode. This sends out a single email once a day containing the entire day's postings. To change your settings go to http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/options/globaloutlookdh-l You can request a password reminder from this page if you have forgotten yours.
-- *James O'Sullivan * @jamescosullivan http://twitter.com/jamescosullivan** Web: josullivan.org
Twitter: http://twitter.com/jamescosullivanhttp://twitter.com/#%21/jamescosullivan LinkedIn: http://linkedin.com/in/jameschristopherosullivanhttp://www.linkedin.com/in/jameschristopherosullivan Facebook: http://facebook.com/jameschristopherosullivanhttp://www.facebook.com/jameschristopherosullivan
New Binary Press: http://newbinarypress.com/Bookstore.html OpenDAHT: http://opendaht.org/ Submit to *The Weary Blues*: http://thewearyblues.org/submit.html
globaloutlookdh-l mailing listglobaloutlookdh-l@uleth.cahttp://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/globaloutlookdh-l
You are currently subscribed to this list in NON-digest mode. This means you receive every message as it is posted.
If this represents too much traffic, you can also subscribe in DIGEST mode. This sends out a single email once a day containing the entire day's postings. To change your settings go to http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/options/globaloutlookdh-l You can request a password reminder from this page if you have forgotten yours.
--
Daniel Paul O'Donnell Professor of English University of Lethbridge Lethbridge AB T1K 3M4 Canada +1 403 393-2539
globaloutlookdh-l mailing list globaloutlookdh-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/globaloutlookdh-l
You are currently subscribed to this list in NON-digest mode. This means you receive every message as it is posted.
If this represents too much traffic, you can also subscribe in DIGEST mode. This sends out a single email once a day containing the entire day's postings. To change your settings go to http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/options/globaloutlookdh-l You can request a password reminder from this page if you have forgotten yours.
-- *James O'Sullivan * @jamescosullivan http://twitter.com/jamescosullivan** Web: josullivan.org
Twitter: http://twitter.com/jamescosullivanhttp://twitter.com/#%21/jamescosullivan LinkedIn: http://linkedin.com/in/jameschristopherosullivanhttp://www.linkedin.com/in/jameschristopherosullivan Facebook: http://facebook.com/jameschristopherosullivanhttp://www.facebook.com/jameschristopherosullivan
New Binary Press: http://newbinarypress.com/Bookstore.html OpenDAHT: http://opendaht.org/ Submit to *The Weary Blues*: http://thewearyblues.org/submit.html
globaloutlookdh-l mailing list globaloutlookdh-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/globaloutlookdh-l
You are currently subscribed to this list in NON-digest mode. This means you receive every message as it is posted.
If this represents too much traffic, you can also subscribe in DIGEST mode. This sends out a single email once a day containing the entire day's postings. To change your settings go to http://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/options/globaloutlookdh-l You can request a password reminder from this page if you have forgotten yours.
Hear, hear. Thank you, Dan.
David
On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 5:07 PM, Daniel O'Donnell daniel.odonnell@uleth.cawrote:
Hi all,
I had somebody ask me the other day about whether there should be any special advice for posting to a list like this--"like this" in the sense of explicitly multicultural, very conscious of multilingual issues, and so on.
We've obviously been discussing aspects of language use in a variety of contexts on the list, but I don't think we've had a metadiscussion about how we should post to this list--things to keep in mind, to be careful of, and so on.
Here's some of the things I suggested. What do others think?
- Be really careful about humour, especially humour that could be misread
as being dismissive, insulting, or mockery. One reason for this is because, as is well known, email doesn't convey tone well at all. But in the case of this specific list, we are also dealing with a variety of different academic cultures--what comes across as normal bantering in a more free-rolling academic culture may appear to be extremely aggressive in another.
- Be careful about allusions to pop culture, and national history and
politics. Many people may not get them. But more importantly, allusions and inside jokes shared among a small group of people can quickly create a sense of exclusion among those who don't know the references being made.
- Since this is an academic list, we will find ourselves disagreeing with
each other, attempting to correct or improve each other's ideas, and so on. In keeping with (1), be careful about how you phrase these disagreements: again, what may seem like relatively light criticism in one academic culture may seem crushing in another; and especially if there are language issues involved, it can be difficult to clear things up. This doesn't mean that we can't criticise each other's ideas, but rather that we should always try to phrase this disagreement as constructively and supportively as possible.
- Generally, try to write in short sentences and using common words (this
is true, BTW, of all languages on the list): you are being read by people who are not as strong in your language as you are.
- Always try to provide context for people: use more links to external
sites than you might normally (e.g. to explain ideas and give examples.
If people think this is good and especially have additional ideas, we could perhaps publish a page on etiquette and tips for emailing in an international context?
-dan
--
Daniel Paul O'Donnell Professor of English University of Lethbridge Lethbridge AB T1K 3M4 Canada
+1 403 393-2539
______________________________**_________________ globaloutlookdh-l mailing list globaloutlookdh-l@uleth.ca http://listserv.uleth.ca/**mailman/listinfo/**globaloutlookdh-lhttp://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/listinfo/globaloutlookdh-l
You are currently subscribed to this list in NON-digest mode. This means you receive every message as it is posted. If this represents too much traffic, you can also subscribe in DIGEST mode. This sends out a single email once a day containing the entire day's postings. To change your settings go to http://listserv.uleth.ca/** mailman/options/**globaloutlookdh-lhttp://listserv.uleth.ca/mailman/options/globaloutlookdh-lYou can request a password reminder from this page if you have forgotten yours.
-
Alex Gil -
Bordalejo, Barbara -
Craig Bellamy -
Daniel O'Donnell -
David Golumbia -
Ernesto Priani -
Ernesto Priego -
James O'Sullivan